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Thread: 1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed

  1. #21
    Moderate Extremist Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    I don't think the author of the book is saying the Hyksos invasion and temporary rule of Egypt was part of the Sea People invasion because, as you point out, the timeline is totally off. The Hyksos invasion of Egypt dates to around 1750 BC, more than half a millennium before the events discussed in this book.
    Agreed. I was somewhat speculating on further conflations from the author similar to the Minoan/Babylonian claim of the review.
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  2. #22
    Moderate Extremist Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Such a MURKY period of history!
    That's why I love the Greco-Roman era: there is so much source material, but still many hypotheses to explore.

  3. #23
    Southern Strategy Liberal OldGaffer's Avatar
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    I got the book!, have not started it yet, finishing off the latest David Drake sci fi thriller, but I am getting a little tired of Captain Leary and Adele, he needs to come up with a new series.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Loki's Avatar
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    I love that period of history as well, though scant information available.

  5. #25
    vulgar? Rasselas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Their interdependence e.g. trade contributed greatly to their demise? Sounds like our present age. Kind of scary.
    Trade routes allowed access to good that wouldn't be available otherwise. It's not like refusing to engage in trade would have helped anyone. Trade contributed greatly to their EXISTENCE. CUTTING trade led to decline. The same thing happened in the middle ages when the surge by Islamic forces engulfed eastern Europe. Until then, the Danube had been a long, very effective trade route between eastern and western Europe. When trade was cut off, the economic decline was palpable.
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  6. #26
    Southern Strategy Liberal OldGaffer's Avatar
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    OK, started reading the opening, lots of information, Ramses III fought a series of wars against the "sea people" in the 12 century BC, his tomb has massive information on the battles and the people and they have all been translated and inscribed. The Philistines were definitely a sea people tribe and the author says it has been proven they were from the island of Crete. Some of the sea people have been traced to the Western Med, Sardinia and Sicily, but they are not sure if they came from there or fled to there, not enough archeological evidence at this time. One thing about these sea peoples, they were from a lot of different tribes, the pictographs in Ramses tomb show different dress, armor, head wear etc. some he let settle in Egypt. The first few pages and I am captivated, this is going to be a fun read....A quote from Ramses Tomb:

    "They were coming forward toward Egypt, while the flame was prepared before them. Their confederation was the Peleset(Philistines), Tjekker, Shekelesh, Danuna, and Weshesh, lands united. They laid their hands upon the lands as far as the circuit of the earth, their hearts confident and trusting"
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  7. #27
    Southern Strategy Liberal OldGaffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    Trade routes allowed access to good that wouldn't be available otherwise. It's not like refusing to engage in trade would have helped anyone. Trade contributed greatly to their EXISTENCE. CUTTING trade led to decline. The same thing happened in the middle ages when the surge by Islamic forces engulfed eastern Europe. Until then, the Danube had been a long, very effective trade route between eastern and western Europe. When trade was cut off, the economic decline was palpable.
    One problem the author mentions, the only large quantities of Tin available were coming from mines in Afghanistan and had to be transported by caravan across the world to the countries of the Civilized World, in order to make Bronze. He compares it to todays need for Mideast Oil. Without tin, their society crumbles.

  8. #28
    Moderate Extremist Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGaffer View Post
    One problem the author mentions, the only large quantities of Tin available were coming from mines in Afghanistan and had to be transported by caravan across the world to the countries of the Civilized World, in order to make Bronze. He compares it to todays need for Mideast Oil. Without tin, their society crumbles.
    I'll have to get this book as it seems to challenge some of what I studied in the past. The Celts were thought to be mining tin very early on in their history, and it was thought that it was traded with the Mediterranean via the Rhine.

  9. #29
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGaffer View Post
    One problem the author mentions, the only large quantities of Tin available were coming from mines in Afghanistan and had to be transported by caravan across the world to the countries of the Civilized World, in order to make Bronze. He compares it to todays need for Mideast Oil. Without tin, their society crumbles.
    Interesting. Tin was also available from Cornwall in England, and we know that the Phoenicians were traveling ALL the way to Cornwall to obtain that tin, at a later date. I rather thought the tin from Cornwall trade began quite a bit earlier. See if the author has anything to say about this later in the book!

  10. #30
    Southern Strategy Liberal OldGaffer's Avatar
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    Have read a bit more, no further mention of tin, but he does discuss the huge copper mines on the Island of Cyprus. He ties everything into actual archeological digs, naming dates, Archeologists and the significance of their finds in relation to other finds. It is like reading a real life Indiana Jones story. So far he has been concentrating on the Egyptians, but he is going to cover the 6 main civilizations of the period.
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