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Thread: Is European Freedom Of Speech Better Than American?

  1. #41
    Junior Member zaangalewa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post


    The French not only erected monuments to their Resistance Fighters, after WWII. They also sought out and stigmatized French Nazi collaborators.

    Are only one of these stories important to teach to modern French schoolchildren?
    Sure - because it was impossible for the Nazis to control France without the help of French people. I see on this picture by the way a beautiful woman and some dirty cowards, not worth to be called "men".


    Last edited by zaangalewa; 30th October 2017 at 10:29 AM.

  2. #42
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    I don’t know anything about free speech in various parts of Europe - but just a quick correction of the OP.

    Free speech is constitutionally assured in Canada. But another, separate offence, committed by way of speech, is still an offence.

    So if I say “I’m going to kill you” or “give me everything from the till and don’t call the cops” there is no limitation on my right to speak. I have, separately, commited a separate offence. In one case, Uttering Threats. That’s illegal. In the other case, Robbery. That’s illegal.

    My speech was never the issue. The other offence was the issue. It’s just coincidence I did my crime by talking. And this seems to me the legal difference between our system and some US states.

    Writing a book about how much you hate Jews is not going to get you in much legal trouble. Professional and social trouble, sure, but not legal. Ditto going on an anti-Semitic rant on the radio or on TV.

    Those disturbed can turn the page, change the channel etc.

    Going on the street and shouting about hating Jews is disturbing those around you on public streets. People trying not to hear or see you cannot avoid you, and your message is deliberately offensive to them. You are causing a public disturbance.

    Causing a public disturbance is a criminal offence. It’s illegal. That’s public space and you are ruining other people’s enjoyment of it.

    So you’ll be stopped.

    There was a guy here spent years writing anti-gay leaflets. No one stopped him. One day he put one on a gay guys car.

    He lost in court. Repeatedly.
    Last edited by Dr.Knuckles; 30th October 2017 at 11:12 AM.
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  3. #43
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    In short. You have the right to speak. But I have the right to not hear you.
    Thanks from labrea and Madeline

  4. #44
    Junior Member zaangalewa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    I don’t know anything about free speech in various parts of Europe ...
    What about to visit Europe? If you are not a naturalized citizen of the USA then you can visit Europe forever - even without any dollar costs. The way: Have pains -> go into a hospital -> let yourself make to a drug addict in this US-hospital -> drive car under influence of medicine (drugs) -> find a nice policemen => and without any problem you can become a German in the age of 60, when you had arrived in the USA as a German in the age of 6 months. And because you are not a citizen of the USA any longer no one cares anything about how to understand what you say. Keeps the problem: You will never see the USA again, because of your entry ban on reason of illegal immigration.

    Evelyn Beatrice Hall in a biography about Voltaire: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". This sentence is a standard of the western civilization.

    Declaration of human rights: Article 19: Right to freedom of opinion and expression:

    Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
    Last edited by zaangalewa; 31st October 2017 at 03:27 AM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post


    The French not only erected monuments to their Resistance Fighters, after WWII. They also sought out and stigmatized French Nazi collaborators.

    Are only one of these stories important to teach to modern French schoolchildren?
    Denmark had their own girls collaborating with the enemy. We learned all about them in school, as well as about the resistance.
    Thanks from Madeline

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    You are correct, that the US has plenty of criticism coming for its mishandling of our freedom of speech, even as it is currently interpreted by our SCOTUS.

    But I disagree that silencing all but polite discussions of racist etc. ideas has value. We did not end Jim Crow in a debate in a Harvard classroom.

    We ended it with the blood of Civil Rights protesters, and the nations disgust at the southern states' government abuse of their non-white citizens.
    I think the main reason why America still haven't solved their racial problems, is because the blacks were never herded into camps and gassed to death en masse, so the madness was there to see for everyone. The madness was always only pinpricks.


  7. #47
    Member fenrir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    The two vary in only one relevant way, for purposes of this thread: In the US, we believe that the cure for horrible ideas is for citizens to shout at them, without aid of the government censoring the other guy.

    In the EU (as well as Canada, I think) the citizens DO expect the government to censor citizens with horrible ideas.

    This difference is wildly believed to account for the somewhat more noisy and raucous protests and counterprotests that occur in the US as compared to Europe. (That's a BIG generalization.) Since 95% of this board "wishes protesters could be more polite and respectful", seems worth looking at.



    https://qz.com/993672/a-controversia...ors_picks=true

    If the US adopts the rule of law that our government can censor hate speech, how to we go on to discuss our own history? How do we honor our heroes and condemn our enemies within?

    Why is it so much better to award MORE power to the government that it is to tolerate there (mostly law-abiding) protests and counter-protests over Trump, etc.?

    Your thoughts?
    Europeans don't have freedom of speech.

    In Europe, Hate Speech Laws are Often Used to Suppress and Punish Left-Wing Viewpoints

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    What EU protests are anywhere near a good old American riot?
    Usually every G-summit. Or any continental soccer event. They're out there.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    It depends on what people are protesting I think.

    Americans are very good at protesting cultural art that they deem anti-Christian.

    Probably the best, at that.


  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    In short. You have the right to speak. But I have the right to not hear you.
    In Denmark it's called Freedom with Responsibility.

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