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Thread: Is European Freedom Of Speech Better Than American?

  1. #51
    Junior Member zaangalewa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CEngelbrecht View Post
    Denmark had their own girls collaborating with the enemy.
    Out of such sentences speaks often only male ignorance and arrogance as well as the idea women are the possession of men. But sometimes love is just simple love. And love cares not about enmity.

    We learned all about them in school, as well as about the resistance.
    I'm still very impressed how the Danish people saved the most Jews of Denmark. I heard the leading Nazis got some heavy screaming tantrums. I enjoy this very much. Thank you, Denmark.

    Last edited by zaangalewa; 31st October 2017 at 02:14 PM.
    Thanks from Madeline

  2. #52
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaangalewa View Post
    What about to visit Europe? If you are not a naturalized citizen of the USA then you can visit Europe forever - even without any dollar costs. The way: Have pains -> go into a hospital -> let yourself make to a drug addict in this US-hospital -> drive car under influence of medicine (drugs) -> find a nice policemen => and without any problem you can become a German in the age of 60, when you had arrived in the USA as a German in the age of 6 months. And because you are not a citizen of the USA any longer no one cares anything about how to understand what you say. Keeps the problem: You will never see the USA again, because of your entry ban on reason of illegal immigration.

    Evelyn Beatrice Hall in a biography about Voltaire: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". This sentence is a standard of the western civilization.

    Declaration of human rights: Article 19: Right to freedom of opinion and expression:

    Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
    Man, I’ve never even been to the US overnight. And considering I’ve now donated to 2 separate fundraisers to help destitute local victims of the Vegas shooting who didn’t buy travel insurance, I’m not in a huge rush to go anytime soon.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    The two vary in only one relevant way, for purposes of this thread: In the US, we believe that the cure for horrible ideas is for citizens to shout at them, without aid of the government censoring the other guy.

    In the EU (as well as Canada, I think) the citizens DO expect the government to censor citizens with horrible ideas.

    This difference is wildly believed to account for the somewhat more noisy and raucous protests and counterprotests that occur in the US as compared to Europe. (That's a BIG generalization.) Since 95% of this board "wishes protesters could be more polite and respectful", seems worth looking at.



    https://qz.com/993672/a-controversia...ors_picks=true

    If the US adopts the rule of law that our government can censor hate speech, how to we go on to discuss our own history? How do we honor our heroes and condemn our enemies within?

    Why is it so much better to award MORE power to the government that it is to tolerate there (mostly law-abiding) protests and counter-protests over Trump, etc.?

    Your thoughts?
    Just two words, stochastic terrorism.

  4. #54
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    The two vary in only one relevant way, for purposes of this thread: In the US, we believe that the cure for horrible ideas is for citizens to shout at them, without aid of the government censoring the other guy.

    In the EU (as well as Canada, I think) the citizens DO expect the government to censor citizens with horrible ideas.

    This difference is wildly believed to account for the somewhat more noisy and raucous protests and counterprotests that occur in the US as compared to Europe. (That's a BIG generalization.) Since 95% of this board "wishes protesters could be more polite and respectful", seems worth looking at.



    https://qz.com/993672/a-controversia...ors_picks=true

    If the US adopts the rule of law that our government can censor hate speech, how to we go on to discuss our own history? How do we honor our heroes and condemn our enemies within?

    Why is it so much better to award MORE power to the government that it is to tolerate there (mostly law-abiding) protests and counter-protests over Trump, etc.?

    Your thoughts?
    Yes. Canada gave up free speech.

    Bad ideas lose out to good ideas with free speech.

    The government fucks most everything it tries to fix... no different when trying to fix people's speech.

  5. #55
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    Yes. Canada gave up free speech.

    Bad ideas lose out to good ideas with free speech.

    The government fucks most everything it tries to fix... no different when trying to fix people's speech.
    ???

    If you make that statement then you must not be free to say something.

    What is it? The speech that’s prohibited? So we know you’re not lying.
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  6. #56
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    ???

    If you make that statement then you must not be free to say something.

    What is it? The speech thatís prohibited? So we know youíre not lying.
    God dammit, you're Canadian and politically active, how do you not know about the hate speech laws?

  7. #57
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    God dammit, you're Canadian and politically active, how do you not know about the hate speech laws?
    Can you name a country that doesn’t have hate speech laws?

  8. #58
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Breach of Peace (cause disturbance) is a crime. It’s illegal. It has been since the invention of written law. Broadly - it’s illegal to act in such a way in public that you are preventing those around you from freely using a public space.

    So if I go downtown and scream in people’s faces that they are ugly - I will be told to stop. It’s illegal.

    Hate speech law in Canada says very, very clearly that it is an offence to do either of two things. A) advocate genocide. B) Speak or write something that violates the existing laws against causing a disturbance.

    This is Section 318,319 and 320 Criminal Code.


    "Hate propaganda" means "any writing, sign or visible representation that advocates or promotes genocide, or the communication of which by any person would constitute an offence under section 319."

    Section 319 then specifically limits itself to speech that is likely to cause a disturbance of the peace. It further limits itself saying no one is guilty if the statement is true, based on religious belief, or genuinely believed at the time to be true.

    As I explained earlier in the thread - you cannot commit another, separate crime, which clearly is a crime, and say it’s ok because you did it while speaking. That is not “freedom of speech”.

    I cannot say “give me 2,000 in small bills or I’ll shoot” to a bank teller and claim freedom of speech. It’s robbery. Robbery is illegal.

    I cannot say “lets kill Bob” and claim freedom of speech. It’s Uttering Threats. Uttering Threats is illegal.

    I cannot say “My name is Bill Smith” and give Bill Smith’s credit card info and buy something and claim free speech. That’s Fraud. Fraud is illegal.

    I cannot cause a public disturbance and claim free speech. Causing a public disturbance is illegal. Regardless of whether or not you did that crime while speaking.

  9. #59
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    Can you name a country that doesnít have hate speech laws?
    The only country that still has free speech.

  10. #60
    Anarquistador StanStill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    Can you name a country that doesn’t have hate speech laws?
    The United States.
    Thanks from bmanmcfly and Madeline

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