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Thread: Is European Freedom Of Speech Better Than American?

  1. #61
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanStill View Post
    The United States.
    Canada did have free speech until around 4-6 years ago.

    Now you can label anything as hate speech that you don't like and people can be arrested. (To my knowledge nobody has faced trial because of speech, but I do remember a few people who were threatened with charges, in canada)

  2. #62
    Anarquistador StanStill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    Canada did have free speech until around 4-6 years ago.

    Now you can label anything as hate speech that you don't like and people can be arrested. (To my knowledge nobody has faced trial because of speech, but I do remember a few people who were threatened with charges, in canada)
    Well to be fair, there are a lot of things that are hate speech which are illegal in the US. We just don't have a law (as far as I know, anyway) that identifies something called "hate speech".

    I really don't see the need, frankly. If someone could be arrested for saying they hate Jews, then why not for saying they hate Catholic Preists, or the Police, or…

    If hate speech is illegal, what about hate singing?

    I forget who said it first, but either you believe in freedom of speech for the people you despise, or you don't believe in it at all.
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  3. #63
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanStill View Post
    Well to be fair, there are a lot of things that are hate speech which are illegal in the US. We just don't have a law (as far as I know, anyway) that identifies something called "hate speech".

    I really don't see the need, frankly. If someone could be arrested for saying they hate Jews, then why not for saying they hate Catholic Preists, or the Police, or…

    If hate speech is illegal, what about hate singing?

    I forget who said it first, but either you believe in freedom of speech for the people you despise, or you don't believe in it at all.
    That's more the call to action element that has legal ramifications. It's not the part of saying fire in a theater that is illegal, it's that you are inducing a crowd of people to an action where people will likely be panicked. So, the illegal part is by creating a dangerous situation, an empty theater would not generate that same danger so, who cares.

  4. #64
    Anarquistador StanStill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    That's more the call to action element that has legal ramifications. It's not the part of saying fire in a theater that is illegal, it's that you are inducing a crowd of people to an action where people will likely be panicked. So, the illegal part is by creating a dangerous situation, an empty theater would not generate that same danger so, who cares.
    Well no one calls that hate speech. I mean like getting an armed mob of white people to march through a neighborhood with torches while chanting slogans that certain ethnic groups should be deported, jailed, or killed, or whatever. That's a terroristic threat. You can't threaten people, or try to intimidate a group of people into living in constant fear of an unprovoked attack. But it's not because you hate them that it is illegal. It's illegal because of what you are doing. Threatening people. Terrorizing them or their neighborhood. Granted, the line is fuzzy, so people do get away with things that come right up to the line.


  5. #65
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    Canada did have free speech until around 4-6 years ago.

    Now you can label anything as hate speech that you don't like and people can be arrested. (To my knowledge nobody has faced trial because of speech, but I do remember a few people who were threatened with charges, in canada)
    You’ve twice said that canada doesn’t have feee speech, but then said you’re not aware of anyone being tried for speech.

    Shouldn’t we just conclude that Canada has feee speech? Since it’s explicitly assured in the Charter and in absence of any evidence to the contrary?

    The fact that home-made, amateur web blogs and populist AM radio shows LOVE to spout off about how there’s no free speech (while they continue to broadcast freely year after year without police or government interference) - doesn’t make it so.

    In fact, the ability to claim it so publically year after year proves how wrong they are.
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  6. #66
    Junior Member zaangalewa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    Man, I’ve never even been to the US overnight. And considering I’ve now donated to 2 separate fundraisers to help destitute local victims of the Vegas shooting who didn’t buy travel insurance, I’m not in a huge rush to go anytime soon.
    Vancouver ... Canada, British Columbia ... Northwest Coast, Pacific ocean. Sorry. My mistake. ... A far as I know it is a wonderful place of the world where you are living.


  7. #67
    quichierbichen
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    Can you name a country that doesn’t have hate speech laws?
    The United States? We have hate crimes laws, but they are about things that start out as crimes.
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  8. #68
    New Member LT Greenbean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    Can you name a country that doesn’t have hate speech laws?
    somolia and albania

  9. #69
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    You’ve twice said that canada doesn’t have feee speech, but then said you’re not aware of anyone being tried for speech.

    Shouldn’t we just conclude that Canada has feee speech? Since it’s explicitly assured in the Charter and in absence of any evidence to the contrary?

    The fact that home-made, amateur web blogs and populist AM radio shows LOVE to spout off about how there’s no free speech (while they continue to broadcast freely year after year without police or government interference) - doesn’t make it so.

    In fact, the ability to claim it so publically year after year proves how wrong they are.
    In a practical sense, yes, Canada still has free speech.

    Legally speaking, if your speech is determined to be hateful, there is a risk of having to defend yourself legally.

    Just because, to my knowledge, these laws have not been enforced does not mean that the laws are not locked and loaded for enforcement.

  10. #70
    Junior Member zaangalewa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    In a practical sense, yes, Canada still has free speech.

    Legally speaking, if your speech is determined to be hateful, there is a risk of having to defend yourself legally.

    Just because, to my knowledge, these laws have not been enforced does not mean that the laws are not locked and loaded for enforcement.
    A question in this context. I remember just in the moment what a German wrote in a forum which I read some years ago. He was at holiday in the USA. One evening in a restaurant a citizen of the USA asked him how he feels because of the genocide on Jews Germans made. He answered "How do you feel because of the genocide on Red Indians your people made"? The US-American poured him his beer into the face. For Germans is the USA a country full of taboo- themes - while in Germany nearly no taboo-themes are existing. Nevertheless we had always laws against hate speech - specially because of the Nazis.

    I remember in this context for example also the sexual taboos of the USA. A man from Switzerland got a job in the USA - but the situation escalated immediately before they arrived there, because the 14 years old son had helped his little sister to pee while they were travelling - in a way which is totally normal since a minimum of decades of thousands of years. But not so in the crazy USA. This idiots, this extreme idiots, this more than only extreme idiots - were not shy to arrest this boy and to traumatize him. It needed a long time to get him out of prison. Sure this expert never again worked for anyone in the USA.

    In both cases words - and only words - nothing else, caused a totally stupid behavior of a citizen of the USA or in the second case even a very stupid behavior of the system of injustice of the USA.

    Not to forget the question: What is worth the right of free speech within the USA - as long as no one listens and tries to understand what's really going on? And what do you do, if you like to speak "free" with someone who has weapons? "Weapons" and "free speech" are a contradiction, aren't they?

    Last edited by zaangalewa; 2nd November 2017 at 04:06 AM.
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