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Thread: Is European Freedom Of Speech Better Than American?

  1. #81
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaangalewa View Post
    No one answered? Whatever. I like to say here "Thank you" to Mr. Karl Lagerfeld, because he spoke out what some people thought but suppressed. A German "taboo-theme":

    On French TV show Salut Les Terrains, Karl said, “One cannot—even if they are decades between them—kill millions of Jews so you can bring millions of their worst enemies in their place.” Karl Lagerfeld criticized how Germany has welcomed more than one million refugees from the Syrian crisis. He even went on to say, “I know someone from Germany who took a young Syrian and after four days said, ‘The greatest thing Germany invented was the Holocaust.’” He followed up by saying, “Merkel had already millions and millions (of immigrants) who are well integrated and who work and all is well … she had no need to take another million to improve her image as the wicked stepmother after the Greek crisis.”
    source: Karl Lagerfeld attacks Angela Merkel with holocaust comment - Lifestyle - The Jakarta Post

    You are the bad guy now Karl, but wonderful that one man had the courage to say this. Again: "Thank you, Karl". I agree with you that it made not a big sense to bring so many people from of Arabian culture to Germany, because we never had an experience in history with people from the Arabian world. This caused and will cause problems - for example with the Clan structure of the people from this area. And for sure anti-Semitism (also caused from so called refugees) and a new form of Nazism (also against refugees) grows in Germany very fast meanwhile. The whole situation is worrying.

    This politics of Angela Merkel frustrated also all our European neighbors and had an effect in the national referendum, which leaded to the Brexit. It was not a masterpiece of politics. Nevertheless I think Angela Merkel really tried to help - that was her motivation. But to say "I made everything right" is indeed only her calculated optimism.

    Assuming you agree the refugees had to go SOMEWHERE in Europe, which other EU nation did you think was not going to suffer from the impact? Where ought these people have been settled?

  2. #82
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaangalewa View Post
    What a nonsense.



    Built on what? ... The most Germans have a background as migrants on their own.



    This "antifascist bulwark" overflew Germany after the reunion on a very simple reason with Nazis - Commies and Nazis were the same people and both are structural similar ideologies. Antifascism was only an empty phrase of the Commies. The GDR was always a country full of racists. Now lots of this people - and specially their ideas - define a big part of the German politics and realities.



    The refugees of the year 2015 (all together about 2 million) will cost Germany in total about 500 billion Euro more money than they will be able to pay back in taxes and in social security systems. It's not a good buisness to do such things. I don't say it is wrong what we did - but everyone should know to help refugees costs money. And it's a little difficult to explain this costs to the 10% of all Germans who have more debts, than they ever will be able to pay back, because of the exorbitant high costs in Germany. The 3% of the people with the lowest income in Germany pay 5% of the taxes for example. So the poor pay relatively higher taxes than all others.

    To reduce all people and all problems to a little love for migrants and/or hate against migrants is only a little part of all this problems. And do not forget: We had often in history in Europe the situation that people lived "multi-culturally" together - often hundreds of years without problems - and suddenly the people started to fight against each other. You can hear a gigantic amount of such stories on the Balkan for example: neighbors murdered neighbors on no reason to do so only because of hate speech or political propaganda. If someone suffers fear then this is not always only because he is an idiot, who needs only another political opinion. Sometimes problems are real problems - for example the problems of a doctor who is not able to pay his own health insurance or the problems of a homeless man who has a good job but not enough money to rent an apartment.

    Yesh, it's hard. Expensive. Risky.

    But what is the better choice?

  3. #83
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaangalewa View Post
    Vancouver ... Canada, British Columbia ... Northwest Coast, Pacific ocean. Sorry. My mistake. ... A far as I know it is a wonderful place of the world where you are living.

    Well all this time I thought it was, but Ive been informed here that in fact it’s a dystopian nightmare of autocratic oppression and repressed liberty.

    Which is a shock because I’d never noticed.

    Not only that. It seems the ONLY place on Earth that has managed to provide free speech - is a mere two hours crawl on bloodied hands and knees away.

    Again - this is quite a shock to the rest of us, probably a billion people, who were utterly convinced we were living in modern, free societies.

    I’m trying to spread the word that we’ve all our lives, actually been censored, but I’m finding that people all over the free world don’t believe me.

    I’m directing them here so they can learn how free they aren’t.
    Thanks from Madeline and Dangermouse

  4. #84
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Say - off hand.

    Did you guys know that CFL and NHL athletes in Canada have kneeled or held a fist up in protest during the national anthem?

    You didn’t?

    Ah yeah. See it didn’t make much news because not a single person tried to stop them.

    Sorry.

    We were saying...?

  5. #85
    Anarquistador StanStill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    Say - off hand.

    Did you guys know that CFL and NHL athletes in Canada have kneeled or held a fist up in protest during the national anthem?

    You didn’t?

    Ah yeah. See it didn’t make much news because not a single person tried to stop them.

    Sorry.

    We were saying...?
    But how did the people of Canada defend the honor of the Mounties and Canadian Armed Forces? Surely such a protest was seen as Anti-Canadian, right?
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  6. #86
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanStill View Post
    But how did the people of Canada defend the honor of the Mounties and Canadian Armed Forces? Surely such a protest was seen as Anti-Canadian, right?
    Open the news for any day over the past 100 years and someone, somewhere, was openly criticizing the RCMP or the military. If not a dairy farmer, then a native Indian, or a quebec separatist, or an opposition critic.


    The radical difference being there’s not a nuclear outrage if a black man does it.

    Quebec separatism is another fair point. The ultimate test of free speech - the absolute ultimate test of it - is the allowance of separatist political parties and activists.

    There are hundreds of thousands of people here who have publically, openly, and passionately advocated for separation and independence every day of their lives. They have an official political party at both levels of government, and they work in the federal government, the military, and the RCMP without prejudice.

    They’ve had two referendums with no interference.

    The UK has Scottish separatists as well.

    You want to talk about free speech?
    Last edited by Dr.Knuckles; 14th November 2017 at 01:27 PM.
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  7. #87
    Moderator jacobfitcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanStill View Post
    But how did the people of Canada defend the honor of the Mounties and Canadian Armed Forces? Surely such a protest was seen as Anti-Canadian, right?
    Well, some got upset I believe. But we all went for beer and poutine and got things sorted.
    Thanks from StanStill and Madeline

  8. #88
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    The NHL player probably did get sorted by his teammates.

    But seriously - why is a team 60% Swedish standing for the anthem anyway?
    Thanks from Dangermouse and Madeline

  9. #89
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    The NHL player probably did get sorted by his teammates.

    But seriously - why is a team 60% Swedish standing for the anthem anyway?
    I don't understand the link between sports and patriotism. How did we collectively decide that the opening of every game is our shared, sacred space for announcing our love of country?
    Thanks from Robert Urbanek

  10. #90
    Veteran Member Eve1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    ???

    If you make that statement then you must not be free to say something.

    What is it? The speech thatís prohibited? So we know youíre not lying.
    What can't you say in Canada because its illegal but cross the border and say its legal?

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