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Thread: Had Constantine lost the battle of Milvian Bridge....

  1. #11
    Member allegoricalfact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallie Knoetze View Post
    Mr. Man,

    On the otherhand, if Rome had not concentrated on the eastern empire, they would have not kept the Persian Empire in check, and maybe Islam would look a lot different.
    The celibate man-god Mithras, the choice of the Roman military, was ironically, Persian - Christ's celibacy was Mithras - the real Christ god-man had a goddess called Sophia, 'the lamp who lights our way'.

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    Happiness is a warm gun Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Fairly large, and yet there were many competing gods in the pantheon. I wonder what happened to them? None of them seem to have made it to Europe, at least not after the fall of the Roman Empire.
    Theodosius I later closed all pagan temples and pagans were heavily persecuted by Christians (we don't hear THAT one coming out of the Vatican). All adherents to pagan beliefs became heretics or witches and were subsequently eradicated.
    Last edited by Blues63; 22nd December 2017 at 12:28 PM.

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    Happiness is a warm gun Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallie Knoetze View Post
    Mr. Blues,

    If you have not done so already, I suggest you read "Julian" by Gore Vidal. A fictional novel, but based on fact, and one which Vidal spent a lot of time researching.
    I haven't read it as such, but I definitely find Julian the Apostate to be one of the more interesting figures of the fourth century.

  4. #14
    Happiness is a warm gun Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallie Knoetze View Post
    Mr. Dittohead,

    Christianity would have still won the day. Hellenism was waning, and Christianity was rising in the time of Constantine. Constantine's decision to make Christianity the official Roman religion was not out of conviction, but rather, a political move because of the growing influence of the Christians.

    It would have changed the dynamics of the Roman empire, however. The one important thing that Constantine did was relocate the capital of Rome to Bysantium, and the focus of the Empire to the east. Perhaps the Persian Empire would have made inroads into the eastern empire, and changed the shape of the middle east today.
    An interesting hypothetical there: Zoroastrianism is far more peaceful than Islam.
    Thanks from allegoricalfact

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    Member allegoricalfact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    Theodosius I later closed all pagan temples and pagans were heavily persecuted by Christians (we don't here THAT one coming out of the Vatican). All adherents to pagan beliefs became heretics or witches and were subsequently eradicated.
    The Vatican archives tell all - a couple of priests who looked after the Vatican library left, maybe 10-11 years ago, because of something they found. One wrote a book - it was about 1,000 to buy when I came across it, I couldn't afford to buy it then and my Italian ain't so hot ---- but in that book were many secrets that he had taken with him. I must have made a note of it, somewhere ......................

  6. #16
    Member allegoricalfact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallie Knoetze View Post
    Mr. Dittohead,

    Christianity would have still won the day. Hellenism was waning, and Christianity was rising in the time of Constantine. Constantine's decision to make Christianity the official Roman religion was not out of conviction, but rather, a political move because of the growing influence of the Christians.

    It would have changed the dynamics of the Roman empire, however. The one important thing that Constantine did was relocate the capital of Rome to Bysantium, and the focus of the Empire to the east. Perhaps the Persian Empire would have made inroads into the eastern empire, and changed the shape of the middle east today.
    Those Christians were still 'pagan' though - their religion was a Mystery, it was not literal, not dogma. There was though a small literalist Christian cult, who were scorned by the people, but it was they whom the Romans saw as a way of ruling by mind -'God/Gov can see into your mind' - and they still do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    I haven't read it as such, but I definitely find Julian the Apostate to be one of the more interesting figures of the fourth century.
    Mr. Blues,

    Very interesting. Constantine divided the empire between his three sons upon his death. Within a few years, Constantius had consolidated power. Julian, Constantine's nephew had no interest in being emperor, and moved to Athens to be a philosopher (Constantius had his father and brother killed, so Julian wanted to make it known he was no threat). Nevertheless, Constantius made him Ceasar of the western empire, ostensibly to have him fail and have his generals depose him. turns out, he was a great military strategist and beat back a German invasion, and his generals named him emperor and backed him in a civil war against Constantius, who died as Julian marched on Constantinople.

  8. #18
    Master political analyst Dittohead not!'s Avatar
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    and then there were the Crusades, which pissed off the Muslims, who wouldn't let the Europeans cross their land to get to Asia, which led to Europeans sailing west to get to the East when they decided that the world must be round, which led to the discovery, exploration and exploitation of the Americas.

    Had Constantine lost the battle of Milvian Bridge, it's quite possible none of that would have happened at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HadEnough2 View Post
    Wouldn't Christianity had made it to the forefront eventually anyway?

    Of course I think the whole God thing was a scam. Then you have Religion which is just one person telling another person that God said you need to give me money. I guess that's another OP.

    Interesting times back then. Love that period in history which tends to repeat itself. Don't have to look much further than Emperor Caligula sitting in the White House.
    Christianity was a fringe cult at the time. The Emperor of of the most dynamic Empire of the time converting thus make Roman's Christians is perhaps the single greatest reason Christianity flourished.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bodisatva View Post
    Christianity was a fringe cult at the time. The Emperor of of the most dynamic Empire of the time converting thus make Roman's Christians is perhaps the single greatest reason Christianity flourished.
    Mr. bodisatva,

    I have to disagree with you. Christianity was not a fringe cult, but rather, a growing movement. Constantine's decision to make it the official religion was no based on faith, but rather a political decision to bring the powerful Christian influence into the fold.

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