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Thread: 1421: The Year China Discovered America

  1. #31
    Veteran Member Micro Machines Champion, Race Against Time Champion Tedminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    If the ships were left to rot at their moorings and the records of their journeys were destroyed, how do we know this voyage actually happened?
    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Why do they think these Chinese ships reached America? Did they make maps?
    Menzies' hypothesis is far fetched.. historian Robert Finlay severely criticized Menzies in the Journal of World History for his "reckless manner of dealing with evidence" that led him to propose hypotheses "without a shred of proof".


    Anyhooo here is map of the actual Zheng Fleet voyages that do have proof..

    Last edited by Tedminator; 7th July 2018 at 08:08 AM.

  2. #32
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tedminator View Post
    Menzies' hypothesis is far fetched.. historian Robert Finlay severely criticized Menzies in the Journal of World History for his "reckless manner of dealing with evidence" that led him to propose hypotheses "without a shred of proof".


    Anyhooo here is map of the actual Zheng Fleet voyages that do have proof..

    China made it to Australia but not Japan, by 1421?

    And what proof is there that Chinese ships reached Australia?

  3. #33
    olguy OlGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Well, SOMEBODY skipped a few history lessons.

    But even assuming you are correct, what distinguishes a settlement at Jamestown from the tribes that surrounded them?

    The Hopis established cities in Arizona in 1100 A.D.

    What else did they lack before you would call them "modern"? Manufacturing?
    I'm not making a judgement, just saying it has changed radically.
    Thanks from Madeline

  4. #34
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlGuy View Post
    I'm not making a judgement, just saying it has changed radically.
    Fair enough. And clearly, there were scientific and mechanical accomplishments, etc., among Europeans that were not likewise achieved by North Americans.

    Etc.

  5. #35
    Veteran Member Micro Machines Champion, Race Against Time Champion Tedminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    China made it to Australia but not Japan, by 1421?

    And what proof is there that Chinese ships reached Australia?
    That map just shows specific voyages (I think you might be mistaking Borneo for Oz on that map). As for Japan, those islands were colonized by mainland chinese long before the 1400s.

    Anyhoo heres a link with supporting info if youre interested.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming_treasure_voyages
    Last edited by Tedminator; 7th July 2018 at 08:24 AM.
    Thanks from Madeline

  6. #36
    Master political analyst Dittohead not!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    1 China made it to Australia but not Japan, by 1421?

    2 And what proof is there that Chinese ships reached Australia?
    1. Must have just sailed on by without noticing.
    2. They drew a map. They should have taken a few selfies with the kangaroos, but they must have forgotten.

  7. #37
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tedminator View Post
    That map just shows specific voyages (I think you might be mistaking Borneo for Oz on that map). As for Japan, those islands were colonized by mainland chinese long before the 1400s.

    Anyhoo heres a link with supporting info if youre interested.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming_treasure_voyages
    Interesting stuff!

  8. #38
    Vexatious Correspondent Leo2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    1. Must have just sailed on by without noticing.
    2. They drew a map. They should have taken a few selfies with the kangaroos, but they must have forgotten.
    It's an understandable mistake. Most Americans seem to have a mental picture of Australia as 'this little island at the bottom of the map'. Few realise that it is actually larger than the continental United States, and when American tourists visit - they are shocked at the distances. Australia's relatively small population tends to further the misapprehension.
    Thanks from Dittohead not!

  9. #39
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo2 View Post
    It's an understandable mistake. Most Americans seem to have a mental picture of Australia as 'this little island at the bottom of the map'. Few realise that it is actually larger than the continental United States, and when American tourists visit - they are shocked at the distances. Australia's relatively small population tends to further the misapprehension.
    Well, now, be fair. What else is directly south of Asia and of any considerable size?

  10. #40
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo2 View Post
    It's an understandable mistake. Most Americans seem to have a mental picture of Australia as 'this little island at the bottom of the map'. Few realise that it is actually larger than the continental United States, and when American tourists visit - they are shocked at the distances. Australia's relatively small population tends to further the misapprehension.
    Sadly, most Americans probably don't even know the difference between Australia and Austria.


    I'm not at all sure that Donald Trump would, for instance.

    Thanks from Friday13

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