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Thread: When the West betrayed democratic Russia

  1. #11
    Fuck Trump The Man's Avatar
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    @Dr.Knuckles

    I agree with you about the economy.

    It's very sad. Russia is a vast place with so many precious natural resources, which, if it was all managed better, could ensure wonderful prosperity for all the people there. But, instead, most of it ends up in the pockets of oligarchs and government officials, while millions of ordinary folks suffer in poverty...

    1% of population owns 75% of everything: Inequality in Russia



    It's fucked up...

    But, I must object to you claiming Russian CULTURE is somehow "lesser".

    A friend of mine back in Vancouver, just went to see a UBC student production of "Eugene Onegin", at the Chan Centre: Opera ? Eugene Onegin | Faculty of Arts

    Yep, even at UBC they know of Aleksandr Pushkin and Piotr Tchaikovsky

    Russian culture has had WAAAAAAY more of an impact in the world than Portuguese (unless you are Brazilian, like my dear wife, Portugal obviously impacted their nation very much) or Norwegian or whatever.

    Frankly, I'm sorry, but you cannot compare a nation of 150 million, whose territory covers about one sixths of the world map, and who has now become one of the main players determining the future of Syria, for example; with Norway or Taiwan or New Zealand. WTF... Sorry, but I cannot agree with you there, my friend.

  2. #12
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    I think there is some truth there. I recall in the early 90s American companies and businesses were rushing to get into Russia. American businessmen suddenly were able to make business trips there to sell their products or offer services. Microsoft sent an entire team there to set up internet infrastructure and offer training. I just don't know what happened as to why it didn't keep getting better? Who abandoned who?
    It was the free market fire sale - much like what was envisioned for Iraq.

    This exclusive, enormously influential group was composed of a few Harvard men and several Russian high officials. In the early 1990s, the US Agency for International Development (USAID) had handed over to Harvard the task of converting the Russian economy into a market system. Russian partners of this group included officials surrounding Anatoly Chubais, “father of Russian privatization,” and his cohorts—or as they were often called, “The St. Petersburg Gang” or the “Chubais Clan.” This Chubais Clan, together with USAID, took charge of the task of converting the Russian economy, using Western funds.

    Harvard?s Role in Russian Economic ?Reform?* | Socialism and Democracy
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  4. #14
    res
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    Reading this article I couldn't but remember this thread.
    Trump, Putin, and the New Cold War - The New Yorker

    This paragraph in particular is very telling about how Russia operated during the 1990s. It would seem that the OP is mere wishful thinking, but the truth, as always, is somewhere in between.

    Active measures were used by both sides throughout the Cold War. In the nineteen-sixties, Soviet intelligence officers spread a rumor that the U.S. government was involved in the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. In the eighties, they spread the rumor that American intelligence had “created” the aids virus, at Fort Detrick, Maryland. They regularly lent support to leftist parties and insurgencies. The C.I.A., for its part, worked to overthrow regimes in Iran, Cuba, Haiti, Brazil, Chile, and Panama. It used cash payments, propaganda, and sometimes violent measures to sway elections away from leftist parties in Italy, Guatemala, Indonesia, South Vietnam, and Nicaragua. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, in the early nineties, the C.I.A. asked Russia to abandon active measures to spread disinformation that could harm the U.S. Russia promised to do so. But when Sergey Tretyakov, the station chief for Russian intelligence in New York, defected, in 2000, he revealed that Moscow’s active measures had never subsided. “Nothing has changed,” he wrote, in 2008. “Russia is doing everything it can today to embarrass the U.S.”
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    I think there is some truth there. I recall in the early 90s American companies and businesses were rushing to get into Russia. American businessmen suddenly were able to make business trips there to sell their products or offer services. Microsoft sent an entire team there to set up internet infrastructure and offer training. I just don't know what happened as to why it didn't keep getting better? Who abandoned who?
    i remember too. My ex husband was one of the people sent to the Soviet Union under Gorbachev to negotiate for a tech company.
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