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Thread: What We Could Lose Under a Trump Presidency

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    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    What We Could Lose Under a Trump Presidency

    This has been one of my main reasons for opposing Trump - besides the fact that he an idiot and certifiable. We have built up international relationships and have been a leader in the world and it has been overall a good thing for us and the world. For us to withdraw from all of that would be just plain wrong. This blog post makes that point much better than I ever could.

    What is described above is just one example of the good that comes from America using its national power – diplomatic, information, military, and economic – within the global system. There are many others. For instance, US Army – Japan’s, as well as other Pacific Command elements’ and US government agencies’ assistance after the tsunami and Fukeshima Daiichi meltdown. There is no one else on the planet, no one, that has the strategic lift capabilities, or the expeditionary forward deployed personnel, to conduct over the horizon, global humanitarian assistance, disaster management, and emergency response. While many countries may contribute when something like the Fukeshima Daiichi disaster happens they rely on the US to get their assets and aid on site. And they rely on the US to have personnel close enough to provide immediate response until everyone else can get moving.

    In case it was unclear in the earlier post, or any of my other posts, I’m not arguing that the US is perfect. That we never screw up or that we’re always able to align our values and ideals and our strategic objectives. We do screw up and we quite often fail to align our values and ideals and our strategic objectives. Even worse we elect leaders with feet of clay or who’s personal ambitions outweigh the public good. This doesn’t make us evil. It makes us human.


    Rather, my intention in the earlier post, and one’s similar to it, has been to argue that we largely established the post WW II order. And that it has benefited us immensely even as we often didn’t always get it right. But until or unless someone can coherently explain who is going to ensure that the Ground Lines of Commerce and Communication (GLOCCs), Sea Lines of Commerce and Communication (SLOCCs), and Air Lines of Commerce and Communication (ALOCCs) if the US doesn’t. Or how a post US driven international order would work, what it would look like, how it would be more stable, then simply either throwing it all out in pursuit of national populism or badmouthing the US for its failings without recognizing its successes, you’re not constructively moving the conversation forward. You’re just picking nits.


    We’re not perfect. We screw up. But if you think Vladimir Putin is going to provide strategic lift and take the lead in doing humanitarian assistance, disaster management, and emergency response if the US pulls back or that the People’s Republic of China will, then you are deluding yourself. One day the PRC may be ready and willing and able to do so, but they aren’t now. And even if they reach the point where they have those capabilities, they may not have the desire or will to do so.

    Trump is too shortsighted and ignorant of history to understand all of this. And so many of his supporters think it's smart for us to disengage and they see it as putting America first, but ultimately, it's bad policy.

    https://www.balloon-juice.com/2017/0...t-to-consider/
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    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    There is a growing group of people on all levels of the political spectrum that want it all "blown up." It was heard from some Stein/Sanders supporters who wanted us out of NATO and now we hear it from some on the far right. Inequality on all sorts of levels got us here. I don't think they realize the long term effects or maybe they really don't like things the way they are or have been?

    https://www.thenation.com/article/in...ps-presidency/
    My progressive friends: We need to talk about Jill Stein
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    Inside Your Heads syrenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    This has been one of my main reasons for opposing Trump - besides the fact that he an idiot and certifiable. We have built up international relationships and have been a leader in the world and it has been overall a good thing for us and the world. For us to withdraw from all of that would be just plain wrong. This blog post makes that point much better than I ever could.




    Trump is too shortsighted and ignorant of history to understand all of this. And so many of his supporters think it's smart for us to disengage and they see it as putting America first, but ultimately, it's bad policy.

    https://www.balloon-juice.com/2017/0...t-to-consider/
    agreed, he needs to shut his mouth.


    that being said

    The funds spent on global humanitarian assistance, disaster management, and emergency response would be better spent here in the US.

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    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by syrenn View Post
    agreed, he needs to shut his mouth.


    that being said

    The funds spent on global humanitarian assistance, disaster management, and emergency response would be better spent here in the US.
    Not if you look at the long view.
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    Inside Your Heads syrenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    Not if you look at the long view.
    the long view is that US infrastructure is failing. It has been let go and ignored long enough. The cost to fixing it is out of reach now as it is. CA is estimating that to fix its failing infrastructure alone will be more then 3 trillion.

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    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by syrenn View Post
    the long view is that US infrastructure is failing. It has been let go and ignored long enough. The cost to fixing it is out of reach now as it is. CA is estimating that to fix its failing infrastructure alone will be more then 3 trillion.
    I cannot argue with that, but the answer is not to stop humanitarian aid for the rest of the world.

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    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    I cannot argue with that, but the answer is not to stop humanitarian aid for the rest of the world.
    I hear you, but I do hear some saying we should at least stop it for awhile. Several Native American tribes along with some in Flint and other areas are demanding we stop spending money overseas until the US has clean water for its children. I think as these problems are seen to be getting worse, more are actually thinking we need to spend more here. The cry will become bigger as the life expectancy goes down more here.
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    My bet: If there is a Tsunami, or Hurricane, or Typhoon, or whatever.....the nations in need won't be denying American aid.

    And, America WILL offer aid.

    IF they bite our hand, then, sorry, but, that is on them...........

    As for America "LEADING the WORLD," I sure wish the Left would make their minds up. in 2001, you guys were complaining about it. 17 years later, after 8 years of being pushed around, you guys are upset about the very thing you were crying for, in 2001.......

    IF we are to LEAD the world, we are going to need STRENGTH AND the WILL to use it.

    If not, we can lead a "debate society," not much else.
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    Inside Your Heads syrenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    I cannot argue with that, but the answer is not to stop humanitarian aid for the rest of the world.
    i dont think we should stop... we need to cut it back by at least 50%. The other countries also need to cough up their share of the cost.

    America itself could use some of that very same humanitarian aid.
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    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    I hear you, but I do hear some saying we should at least stop it for awhile. Several Native American tribes along with some in Flint and other areas are demanding we stop spending money overseas until the US has clean water for its children. I think as these problems are seen to be getting worse, more are actually thinking we need to spend more here. The cry will become bigger as the life expectancy goes down more here.
    But all those people are blaming the wrong people, orgs, laws and policies. Stopping foreign aid won't help them.

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