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Thread: Iran bans english in primary schools.

  1. #21
    The Un-Holy One The Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    It's just dumb and ideological rather than practical. English has been for over 100 years the language of commerce worldwide. It may not be forever, but it's so widespread in the developed world that it will be hard to dislodge. Excluding English from Iran is just isolating. They can't stop the proliferation of Western culture. A fool's errand.

    I can't know the impact of banning Russian from Ukraine would have. How widespread and accepted as Russian as a common language for business and diplomacy in their region?
    It's the main language of business, science, education, and just about all communication between all the ex-Soviet republics
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  2. #22
    quichierbichen
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACE View Post
    Not sure what these shipments have to do with the Iran Oil Bourse.

    But if Chinese is still taught that would be a good thing,
    Chinese is spoken by more people, but it's got some real disadvantages as a potential lengua franca. Most important, its written language isn't alphabetic. To be literate in Chinese requires learning hundreds of different figures, and they don't correspond to the spoken language. English has a lot of phonemes--more than many other languages--but it's not dependent on intonation as Chinese and many languages are. Even among Indo-European languages English has a fairly simple grammar system--lots of irregular forms, but the basic grammatical patterns are not very complex.

    English became the great world language first because the Brits colonized all over the world and were bent on turning their colonies into something like themselves. When they fell from the top spot they were replaced by the US, which reinforced those worldwide connections via commerce. When someone in the Netherlands does a deal with someone in Japan, they negotiate in English. A pilot flying from Milan to Rome talks to the tower in English. Anything translated from one language into just one other is likely turned into English.

    It would be good for everyone to learn Chinese in order to sell to the Chinese. But Mandarin is an unlikely replacement for English as a worldwide tongue.
    Last edited by Rasselas; 7th January 2018 at 04:48 PM.
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  3. #23
    Inside Your Heads syrenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACE View Post
    There is a paranoia there that dates back to 1953; they aren't backwards, without their math and science discoveries, we wouldn't have western civilization; the span bridge is the design of sixth century Arabia, and the water wheel can be directly attributed to the Armenians, none of that came from what is historically known as Western Civilization.

    I think the isolationist view is wrong, for us and for them, our higher education system is well prized and regarded by students from the Middle East, and as a function of that, they assimilate; I am waiting for the ban on foreign students in this country, that would cement the ideal of isolation, and that's not good.

    It is not paranoia and so long as they adhere to a backwards religion they will be behind the rest of the world. No one denies that muslims have made huge strides engineering. Engineering, math and science have nothing to do with religion or isolation in education to keep western ideas from being learned.

  4. #24
    Inside Your Heads syrenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    It's just dumb and ideological rather than practical. English has been for over 100 years the language of commerce worldwide. It may not be forever, but it's so widespread in the developed world that it will be hard to dislodge. Excluding English from Iran is just isolating. They can't stop the proliferation of Western culture. A fool's errand.

    I can't know the impact of banning Russian from Ukraine would have. How widespread and accepted as Russian as a common language for business and diplomacy in their region?

    sure they can stop the proliferation of western anything. Once they start throwing people off roofs for doing/thinking anything western.... watch how fast they revert.

  5. #25
    quichierbichen
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    Quote Originally Posted by syrenn View Post
    sure they can stop the proliferation of western anything. Once they start throwing people off roofs for doing/thinking anything western.... watch how fast they revert.
    That never works. Elizabeth I (and her sister before her) threw lots of people off the roofs of buildings for being the wrong religion. That didn't rid Britain of either Catholics or Anglicans. And that was before the internet, satellite TV, and DVDs.

    And I guess there are no gay people in Iran or Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan under the Taliban....right?
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  6. #26
    Veteran Member PACE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by syrenn View Post
    It is not paranoia and so long as they adhere to a backwards religion they will be behind the rest of the world. No one denies that muslims have made huge strides engineering. Engineering, math and science have nothing to do with religion or isolation in education to keep western ideas from being learned.
    The educated who are devout are more progressive than one might think.

  7. #27
    Inside Your Heads syrenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    That never works. Elizabeth I (and her sister before her) threw lots of people off the roofs of buildings for being the wrong religion. That didn't rid Britain of either Catholics or Anglicans. And that was before the internet, satellite TV, and DVDs.

    And I guess there are no gay people in Iran or Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan under the Taliban....right?
    we shall see.

    I am not saying there wont be an underground. Or those in power enjoying every western thing they can lay their hands on..... wash, rinse, repeat.

  8. #28
    Inside Your Heads syrenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACE View Post
    The educated who are devout are more progressive than one might think.

    I have never said otherwise. The reality is that most are not as educated as you may think.

  9. #29
    quichierbichen
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    Quote Originally Posted by syrenn View Post
    I have never said otherwise. The reality is that most are not as educates you may think.
    The thing is, Iran made its great mistake back in 2009. The whole project of the Iranian revolution was to combine and Islamic state with the governing framework of a republic. Republics have taken on many different forms, but they all require the rule of law and some means of democratic participation for the wider population. They betrayed the republican element of their project back in 2009 when they futzed the election. Everyone saw that. The legitimacy of the revolution was badly tarnished then. It takes a while for these things to have an effect, though. These protests are widespread, and they have the regime scared. This is about bread and butter. I'm not saying they will be overthrowing their government any time soon, but these protests have a chance to change the political calculus in Iran going forward.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACE View Post
    Free education is a relative thing, the international language of business is English, until that changes, I see this as a losing proposition for Iran.

    Sort of like, Amadinajah or as I like to call him Amadmaniniran, banishing the name "Danish" for pastries and renaming them Rose of the Prophet Muhammed, after some bad jokes about the Prophet.


    BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iranians rename Danish pastries

    BUT! then again: Remember
    there were in the US "freedom fries" instead of French fries..........
    Not so different a behavior....!
    Last edited by Ian Jeffrey; 8th January 2018 at 01:56 AM. Reason: Added closing "quote" tag. -IJ
    Thanks from Rasselas and PACE

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