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  1. #11
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    Babba, I agree with you, but my questions were about leveling the field, but it has to be done by all.
    And you get to that by negotiating. Trump is not negotiating. Issuing blanket edicts is not negotiating.
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  2. #12
    Shut up and vote Addiction Solitaire Champion, Double Deuce Champion, Queen Jewels Champion, Ray Ray Shuffle Champion, Twins Champion, Blow Up: Arcade Champion, Bunch - Time Trial Champion, Znax Champion, Zoo Keeper Champion, Sobics School Champion, Swap a Smiley Champion, Makos Champion, Dino Drop Champion, Flower Frenzy Champion, Some Puzzle Champion, Funny Bubbles Champion, CubeZ Champion, Dinky Smash Champion, Fun Fun Animals Champion, Fruit Fabriek Champion, Raft Wars Champion, Rainbow Monkey RunDown Champion, Raft Wars Champion, Crime Puzzle Champion Blueneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    And you get to that by negotiating. Trump is not negotiating. Issuing blanket edicts is not negotiating.
    And petulance is not a negotiating tactic.
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  3. #13
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Subsidies are used to encourage products or technology that are important to the development of the country as a whole. Tariffs can be a tool used to get your own country a better deal. Simply deciding not to use either is shortsighted, among other things.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    Subsidies are used to encourage products or technology that are important to the development of the country as a whole. Tariffs can be a tool used to get your own country a better deal. Simply deciding not to use either is shortsighted, among other things.
    Subsidies began as a way to stabilize farming to address the problem of soil erosion and later, to address things like pellagra and rickets.

    Trying to balance production in the US to assure we have adequate supplies of what we need is one thing, but subsidizing crops for export to gain an advantage is another thing all together. Right now we're complaining about the Chinese subsidizing their steel and aluminum industry, but we subsidize soybeans and feed corn which in turn makes hog production cheaper so it makes sense that the Chinese respond by putting tariffs on those imports.

    The biggest problem with trade is the disparity between our wages and those in the developing world. I haven't heard this administration or any other address how we're supposed to compete with countries where the average wage is 1 or 2 dollars an hour.
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  5. #15
    Veteran Member Moorhuhn Wanted Champion Hollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slartibartfast View Post
    Trump has done the tariffs for one reason alone, to get others discussing and negotiating tariffs. He's basically saying, "Trade with the US has been unfair for America so you need to come back to us will a better deal or your exports are going to get hammered". The Obama pussy days are long gone.
    Did MaryAnne not politiley ask that partisan politics be set aside? WTF?

  6. #16
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    Did MaryAnne not politiley ask that partisan politics be set aside? WTF?
    Especially since that Poster does not live in the US. He just wants to rant about Obama.

    I understand how Subsidies and Tariffs work. I understand why they were put on,originally.

    But why not an agreement that does away with all of them?

    We all know there were Political reasons for every one of them !I understand why. But if all Countries would agree why not?

  7. #17
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueneck View Post
    Subsidies began as a way to stabilize farming to address the problem of soil erosion and later, to address things like pellagra and rickets.

    Trying to balance production in the US to assure we have adequate supplies of what we need is one thing, but subsidizing crops for export to gain an advantage is another thing all together. Right now we're complaining about the Chinese subsidizing their steel and aluminum industry, but we subsidize soybeans and feed corn which in turn makes hog production cheaper so it makes sense that the Chinese respond by putting tariffs on those imports.

    The biggest problem with trade is the disparity between our wages and those in the developing world. I haven't heard this administration or any other address how we're supposed to compete with countries where the average wage is 1 or 2 dollars an hour.
    Thanks,Blueneck, that needs to be addressed, along with the rest.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    Thank you for an honest answer, but, not you could have avoided the whining bit. My post was about workers and how they feel, and why not do away with Teriffs and Subsidies.

    Instead you went into a long praise of your country that had nothing to do with the qiestions posted.

    We are doing all the things you suggested we should.
    Unfortunately seen from abroad the US do not have the skilled Manpower they need…… There is a basic problem there………. You have the Ivy leage but you need also skilledmanpower and for most European companies producing in the US it is a headache. You just do not find technicians in many indsutrial field…. The purpose of my post was not praising my country but to go beyond focusing on the unpleasant questions of workers left behind in the US. I have the feeling that many Americans have only little knowledge of how things are abroad and still consider that American exceptionalism is still what makes the US different from the rest of the world, which was true after WWII but faded away over the year. My feeling is that the US are not ready to adjust to mutations and do not address facts as before, but prefer to rely on a mythical image of their country, which would be ok, if they would address new realities.But is it the case ?
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  9. #19
    Bad Policy Good Politics DebateDrone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slartibartfast View Post
    Trump has done the tariffs for one reason alone, to get others discussing and negotiating tariffs. He's basically saying, "Trade with the US has been unfair for America so you need to come back to us will a better deal or your exports are going to get hammered". The Obama pussy days are long gone.
    Im going to highlight one issue and you tell me how you and Donald Trump see America as getting screwed.

    US has a massive dairy industry. US milk producers want to flood the Canadian market with US milk. Canadian milk producers fear their industry will suffer if the US has unfettered access to the Canadian market.

    Who is Prime Minister Justin Trudeau supposed to protect? Donald Trump believes Canada placing price hikes on US dairy as unfair but the US supports US dairy with price supports.

    Overproduction of dairy is world-wide and a shift to almond and other milk substitutes is putting more pressure on producers.

    Australia and EU gives their producers price supports. Russia blocks US and EU dairy products.

    The US has been in trade negotiations for the past 70 years. It is a constant and ongoing negotiations. What we have never have had is a person at the top making things worse and calling allies ridiculous names.

    Donald Trump promises to fix trade. Trade is an ongoing process. If Trump can not understand that simple fact...he's lost even before he's started.
    Last edited by DebateDrone; 10th June 2018 at 06:35 AM.
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slartibartfast View Post
    Trump has done the tariffs for one reason alone, to get others discussing and negotiating tariffs. He's basically saying, "Trade with the US has been unfair for America so you need to come back to us will a better deal or your exports are going to get hammered". The Obama pussy days are long gone.
    America isnt just the victim, but also the victimizer in trade deals.

    Imported pork had a dramatic effect on Mexican jobs. “We lost 4,000 pig farms,” Ramírez estimates, based on reports received by the confederation from its members. “On Mexican farms, each 100 animals produce five jobs, so we lost 20,000 farm jobs directly from imports. Counting the five indirect jobs dependent on each direct job, we lost over 120,000 jobs in total.”

    “That produces migration to the US or to Mexican cities,” Ramírez charges.

    Corn imports also rose, from 2 million to 10.3 million tons from 1992 to 2008. “Small Mexican farmers got hit with a double whammy,” Wise explains. “On the one hand, competitors were importing pork. On the other, they were producing cheaper hogs.” Smithfield was both producer and importer. Wise estimates that this one company supplies 25 percent of all the pork sold in Mexico.

    The increases in pork and corn imports were among many economic changes brought about by NAFTA

    https://www.thenation.com/article/ho...eat-migration/
    NAFTA brought job loss, poverty, pollution, and illness to Mexico, but was good for factory farming.
    Thanks from MaryAnne

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