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  1. #41
    Veteran Member bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueneck View Post
    Which Trump walked out of.
    and the future doesn't look too good for workers, either. imagine the impact when AI gets cranked up and machines can replicate themselves without human intervention. you ain't seen nothin yet.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    I agree.
    I agree, too.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    and the future doesn't look too good for workers, either. imagine the impact when AI gets cranked up and machines can replicate themselves without human intervention. you ain't seen nothin yet.
    That is what wars are for.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    Why do you think people like Auto workers are angry? That same Auto worker blames Canada and Mexico on the loss of their plants in places like Detroit and the Midwest. Right or wrong that is what I hear,over and over, Canada protects their Industries,too.

    The core of the problem is all theses countries that do the same thing. There is a great deal of truth in what Trump says, but he is not rational enough to sit down and solve problems.
    Oh, but he is. He is not a politician. He is a businessman.

    Just for grins, check out what US cars imported into Japan or the EU have to go through vis-a-vis what Japanese and EU cars sold here. Then tell me there is a fair system of trade.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by a777pilot View Post
    That is what wars are for.
    p.s., No, I am not being funny. That is what wars have always been used for in history.
    Thanks from MaryAnne

  6. #46
    Shut up and vote Addiction Solitaire Champion, Double Deuce Champion, Queen Jewels Champion, Ray Ray Shuffle Champion, Twins Champion, Blow Up: Arcade Champion, Bunch - Time Trial Champion, Znax Champion, Zoo Keeper Champion, Sobics School Champion, Swap a Smiley Champion, Makos Champion, Dino Drop Champion, Flower Frenzy Champion, Some Puzzle Champion, Funny Bubbles Champion, CubeZ Champion, Dinky Smash Champion, Fun Fun Animals Champion, Fruit Fabriek Champion, Raft Wars Champion, Rainbow Monkey RunDown Champion, Raft Wars Champion, Crime Puzzle Champion Blueneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnotaFrayed View Post
    Aren't the subsidies and tariffs, the reason workers feel cheated in the first place?

    Also, how great of an effect do subsidies and tariffs have on corporations contracting factory work out to foreign factories and their workers, or building factories in other nations, that hire foreign workers, to make their products, based on disparate economies and maximizing their bottom lines, via the cost of labor?


    I hate to keep pointing to the same old videos time and time again, but this one presents some of the hypocrisy of those who claim to be "heroes" of working people who feel cheated, even as they are cheating, working Americans.



    I think the problem is that there are workers in every country that want their leaders to "protect them" and stop them from feeling "cheated" and when you think about it, why should they not, if we put ourselves in the shoes of people born other places? The difficulty comes in trying to balance out the disparate economies, why they are disparate, (labor and environmental protections, political systems, etc.) so that everyone might be able to agree to what is fair to their workers. No agreement is going to give anyone 100% of what they want or make all people 100% happy, unless that agree down the line on everything. Then, what is the need for negotiation and agreement, but to pledge to continuing to agree, into perpetuity or for a set period of time. Even then, things can change, that affect an agreement, as well as an agreement to revise the agreement, based on those changes. Certainly, it would seem pissing people off who are only trying to do for their people, what you are trying to do for yours, leads to no improvement and perhaps something worse, for those who feel cheated.

    Americans have complained that other nations, like China, "dump" products here, undercutting American made versions of the same, based on a number of things in China that allow those products to be produced very cheaply. A part of it can be government subsidies to specific industries or product, a lack of worker protection laws, including safety (China has roughly 4 times the population of the U.S. and people need to eat there, just like they do here, but if someone gets injured or killed on the job, there is no lack of someone to take that place. There are also environmental protection laws in some nations, not in others that contribute to being able to produce products more cheaply. With no tariffs or subsidies, I would think there will still be differences in the cost of labor and that will affect the price of goods making them more attractive to markets than others, if one goes on price alone. Tariffs and subsidies, in a constantly monitored and revised agreement, can help to level playing fields for all.

    Unfortunately, some people seem to believe that "negotiation" is all about everyone else abiding by what one nation wants and giving up anything their own nations and workers desire, with regard to relative fairness.

    I don't know how, in a world of different and disparate economies and capitalists looking at cutting labor costs to maximize their profits or poor nations that have no worker or environmental protections, among other things, no tariffs or subsidies is going to level the playing field. Even if attempts to do so by international agreement are not perfect or still leave things to be desired, a lack of parameters does not seem like it would end up being fair to some and would offer a huge advantage to others.
    And none of what's going on in the negotiations between lower wage countries (Mexico & China) addresses outsourcing, at least not through tariffs or subsidies. But I really can't say for sure, because it's not as of there's a dot gov site that posts any info so people can know what's going on before it's decided for them. This is a complaint many have had with trade negotiations under previous administrations for ages and Trump hasn't changed that approach either.

    https://www.npr.org/2018/03/27/59747...th-south-korea

    We shouldn't have to wait till negotiations are over and the press analyzes the agreement to find out what's going on.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    and the future doesn't look too good for workers, either. imagine the impact when AI gets cranked up and machines can replicate themselves without human intervention. you ain't seen nothin yet.
    Perhaps human beings will make themselves obsolete as a species.

  8. #48
    Veteran Member bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    Perhaps human beings will make themselves obsolete as a species.
    a possibility - at least in the mind of Stephen Hawking. we don't seem to need much help when it comes to killing each other.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by a777pilot View Post
    Oh, but he is. He is not a politician. He is a businessman.

    Just for grins, check out what US cars imported into Japan or the EU have to go through vis-a-vis what Japanese and EU cars sold here. Then tell me there is a fair system of trade.
    There is little limitations for American cars in europe, but how do American automakers do adjsut to what European customers want……. And why a significant share of the market is taken in europe by japanese cars ? American cars until the end of the 5pties were considered as very good cars in Europe, after things did change. My grandfahter form 1924 tp 1958 had only american cars, but he switched to Volvo after and died in 1976..... hy do you think ? Chevrolet started to sell compact cars 5 years ago but pulled out, they did not get enough margin on them…… American tariffs are 25% on pikh ups, but only 2.5% on other cars, margins are better on pick ups for American automakers than for others…. etc...

  10. #50
    Veteran Member bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a777pilot View Post
    p.s., No, I am not being funny. That is what wars have always been used for in history.
    and that is quite pathetic. in the past, that was true. have we as a species learned nothing? we shall see. if a war starts now, civilization could be in serious jeopardy.
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey

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