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Thread: My Post This Morning has No Link

  1. #1
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    My Post This Morning has No Link

    It is simply a discussion of Pros and Cons.

    This has to do with Tariffs and Subsidies.

    No matter what we think of Trump my question is about those subjects

    For at least 50 years now the average worker has felt cheated. NAFTA made it worse in their minds. We can go after how wrong they are, but that does not solve the problems of those who feel cheated.

    We do know many Countries cheat with subsidies and other things. Many cheat by money manipulation.

    When a worker loses his good paying job because his Company goes over seas it does no good to explain to them about Global expansion.

    So what is wrong with no Subsidies or Tariffs at all?

    Do not start with defensive Politics.just explain why Subsidies and Tariffs are good. There will always be Special Interests that will be hurt.
    Thanks from Blueneck

  2. #2
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    If I look at my country, since 1990 globalization brought a lot of economical growth GDP was rising most of the time. So the country became richer. And we do not give subsidies to companies to export and tariffs are rather low.. Some companies went oversea but we kept what we do best, which are sophisticated manufactured products and although everything is expensive in Switzerland like wages, rents etc.… we export proportionally more than Germany. The question in this post is not to be bragging about achievements, but to go deeper in your topic and to ask what makes possible this prosperity for a very small country without natural resources etc... when many other countries are complaining about loosing jobs. The answer is probably a complex one. To answer globalization you need a global approach and this approach must not only be based on how to make money but also to integrate questions like social welfare, education, training and finally also how to make the greatest number of people benefits from prosperity. The result is to find out how to have the good people, where to invest and what to produce and from this point you can build an industrial policy where you can enhance your potential. If you are whining about loosing jobs because other countries can produce at a lower cost, you should ask also why ? Are your products to easy to produce, that emerging nations can manufacture with less investments, a low paid manpower and often at the start some government subsidies ? You can only be out of the market if you focus on this category of products.Therefore to come back to the answer you need to develop your activities in what you do best and where others have not the same advantages. And it goes back to education and training and how to offer prospects to workers who have anyway a little future. Certainly not in trying to keep producing traditional products but in finding other fields of activities and the US are very good in innovation and have often rebounced like with internet, Hollywood and very sophisticated electronics together with services. It is where the new jobs are and are well paid. But for that you need trained people and the question is how the educational system fits the needs of the Economy.In Switzerland it is obvious, we train lots of skilled people and they find jobs which are well paid but there is no will to keep working facilities when what they produced can be done at a cheaper price abroad. Even if comparing my country to the USA is to compare realities which are different, there is a trend which brings success and a way of retreating in oneself when refusing specialization like saying that others are unfair, that they cheat etc.…. which leads nowhere. It may exist but it is not central to explain the unpleasant conséquences of global economical competition.So better not be shortsighted if you want to have a good economy like the one to which globalization contributed a lot. The other real question beyond the need of education are how to bring welfare to most people in a country, how to share the return of economical development etc.… It is a tough subject but you cannot bring solution if you are only dollar minded and you refuse to see other aspects of what a performing society is able to offer to achieve the best for the greatest number of people.
    Thanks from MaryAnne and labrea

  3. #3
    Junior Member Slartibartfast's Avatar
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    Trump has done the tariffs for one reason alone, to get others discussing and negotiating tariffs. He's basically saying, "Trade with the US has been unfair for America so you need to come back to us will a better deal or your exports are going to get hammered". The Obama pussy days are long gone.
    Thanks from a777pilot

  4. #4
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    The trade balance for industrial goods of the USA is negative, but you have many other fields which a bring a positive balance. If Trump focuses on industrial goods he forgets the rest and to have a real approach of international trade problems you need also to integrate these other aspects. Furthermore with only 3.8% of jobless people in the US, when Trumps says he wants to bring back jobs to America, where to find people to fill them ? So what Trump wants for what an economical vision? Beyond trying to please his voters ?
    Thanks from Blueneck, labrea and Dangermouse

  5. #5
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    I agree that some of our trade agreements needed to be renegotiated. But just issuing blanket tariffs is not negotiating. All he's doing is starting trade wars.

  6. #6
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by galatin View Post
    If I look at my country, since 1990 globalization brought a lot of economical growth GDP was rising most of the time. So the country became richer. And we do not give subsidies to companies to export and tariffs are rather low.. Some companies went oversea but we kept what we do best, which are sophisticated manufactured products and although everything is expensive in Switzerland like wages, rents etc.… we export proportionally more than Germany. The question in this post is not to be bragging about achievements, but to go deeper in your topic and to ask what makes possible this prosperity for a very small country without natural resources etc... when many other countries are complaining about loosing jobs. The answer is probably a complex one. To answer globalization you need a global approach and this approach must not only be based on how to make money but also to integrate questions like social welfare, education, training and finally also how to make the greatest number of people benefits from prosperity. The result is to find out how to have the good people, where to invest and what to produce and from this point you can build an industrial policy where you can enhance your potential. If you are whining about loosing jobs because other countries can produce at a lower cost, you should ask also why ? Are your products to easy to produce, that emerging nations can manufacture with less investments, a low paid manpower and often at the start some government subsidies ? You can only be out of the market if you focus on this category of products.Therefore to come back to the answer you need to develop your activities in what you do best and where others have not the same advantages. And it goes back to education and training and how to offer prospects to workers who have anyway a little future. Certainly not in trying to keep producing traditional products but in finding other fields of activities and the US are very good in innovation and have often rebounced like with internet, Hollywood and very sophisticated electronics together with services. It is where the new jobs are and are well paid. But for that you need trained people and the question is how the educational system fits the needs of the Economy.In Switzerland it is obvious, we train lots of skilled people and they find jobs which are well paid but there is no will to keep working facilities when what they produced can be done at a cheaper price abroad. Even if comparing my country to the USA is to compare realities which are different, there is a trend which brings success and a way of retreating in oneself when refusing specialization like saying that others are unfair, that they cheat etc.…. which leads nowhere. It may exist but it is not central to explain the unpleasant conséquences of global economical competition.So better not be shortsighted if you want to have a good economy like the one to which globalization contributed a lot. The other real question beyond the need of education are how to bring welfare to most people in a country, how to share the return of economical development etc.… It is a tough subject but you cannot bring solution if you are only dollar minded and you refuse to see other aspects of what a performing society is able to offer to achieve the best for the greatest number of people.
    Thank you for an honest answer, but, not you could have avoided the whining bit. My post was about workers and how they feel, and why not do away with Teriffs and Subsidies.

    Instead you went into a long praise of your country that had nothing to do with the qiestions posted.

    We are doing all the things you suggested we should.
    Last edited by MaryAnne; 10th June 2018 at 05:22 AM.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slartibartfast View Post
    Trump has done the tariffs for one reason alone, to get others discussing and negotiating tariffs. He's basically saying, "Trade with the US has been unfair for America so you need to come back to us will a better deal or your exports are going to get hammered". The Obama pussy days are long gone.
    I agree.

  8. #8
    Shut up and vote Addiction Solitaire Champion, Double Deuce Champion, Queen Jewels Champion, Ray Ray Shuffle Champion, Twins Champion, Blow Up: Arcade Champion, Bunch - Time Trial Champion, Znax Champion, Zoo Keeper Champion, Sobics School Champion, Swap a Smiley Champion, Makos Champion, Dino Drop Champion, Flower Frenzy Champion, Some Puzzle Champion, Funny Bubbles Champion, CubeZ Champion, Dinky Smash Champion, Fun Fun Animals Champion, Fruit Fabriek Champion, Raft Wars Champion, Rainbow Monkey RunDown Champion, Raft Wars Champion, Crime Puzzle Champion Blueneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    I agree that some of our trade agreements needed to be renegotiated. But just issuing blanket tariffs is not negotiating. All he's doing is starting trade wars.
    And he's hurting one sector of the economy to benefit another.

    And the fact he doesn't know what the fuck he's doing and refuses to listen to anyone who does just compounds the risk.
    Thanks from Babba, HenryPorter, labrea and 3 others

  9. #9
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    I agree that some of our trade agreements needed to be renegotiated. But just issuing blanket tariffs is not negotiating. All he's doing is starting trade wars.
    Babba, I agree with you, but my questions were about leveling the field, but it has to be done by all.

  10. #10
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueneck View Post
    And he's hurting one sector of the economy to benefit another.

    And the fact he doesn't know what the fuck he's doing and refuses to listen to anyone who does just compounds the risk.
    Blueneck, I specifically asked about no Tariffs or Subsidies..

    This is not about Trump and His actions. Not one person has answered what I asked.

    But thanks,anyway.

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