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Thread: Is Trump Purposely Destroying the West?

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    Veteran Member Dangermouse's Avatar
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    Is Trump Purposely Destroying the West?

    NYT Op ed, but something I touched on in another thread a couple of days ago. He seems to be systematically burning bridges in every alliance the US has. Initially it appeared he was hellbent on wiping out everything Obama ever did, but he's going beyond that.

    "The alliance between the United States and Western Europe has accomplished great things. It won two world wars in the first half of the 20th century. Then it expanded to include its former enemies and went on to win the Cold War, help spread democracy and build the highest living standards the world has ever known.President Trump is trying to destroy that alliance.
    Is that how he thinks about it? Who knows. It’s impossible to get inside his head and divine his strategic goals, if he even has long-term goals. But put it this way: If a president of the United States were to sketch out a secret, detailed plan to break up the Atlantic alliance, that plan would bear a striking resemblance to Trump’s behavior. ..."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/10/o...c-trudeau.html
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    Bad Policy Good Politics DebateDrone's Avatar
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    The next US President will have to do an apology tour to our ally nations.

    Thank god our allies, Canada, UK, France, Italy, Germany, Australia, Mexico, and Japan understand it's not us...it's the menace.

    Donny the Menace.

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    olguy OlGuy's Avatar
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    I don't know if the US can still claim to have won both world wars but controlling Europe wasn't part of promoting democracy there. European countries will act in their own interests.

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    Senior Member Loki's Avatar
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    The Trump Trainwreak coming off the rails. Trump is playing himself in that you need him more than he needs you, doesn't care if leads to bankrupcy as long as his pie is safe.
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    Junior Member Slartibartfast's Avatar
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    The West has managed to decline itself before Trump taking office. The immigration influx has been a main factor. You can't invite the wolf in and not expect the sheep to suffer.

    The financial melt down, debt level, destruction of our manufacturing base, the conflict with the Middle East was like whacking the hornets nest with a stick. We now have terrorist nut jobs everywhere.

    The EU destroying itself from within.

    As I've mentioned before, the decline of the west is juxtaposed with the rise of the East.
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    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangermouse View Post
    NYT Op ed, but something I touched on in another thread a couple of days ago. He seems to be systematically burning bridges in every alliance the US has. Initially it appeared he was hellbent on wiping out everything Obama ever did, but he's going beyond that.

    "The alliance between the United States and Western Europe has accomplished great things. It won two world wars in the first half of the 20th century. Then it expanded to include its former enemies and went on to win the Cold War, help spread democracy and build the highest living standards the world has ever known.President Trump is trying to destroy that alliance.
    Is that how he thinks about it? Who knows. It’s impossible to get inside his head and divine his strategic goals, if he even has long-term goals. But put it this way: If a president of the United States were to sketch out a secret, detailed plan to break up the Atlantic alliance, that plan would bear a striking resemblance to Trump’s behavior. ..."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/10/o...c-trudeau.html
    I would say, let’s list, say, the top ten things that define “the West”. What are the characteristics of “The West”?

    Is there anything on that list that Donald Trump thinks is important?

    Let me change that.

    Is there anything on that list that he thinks is real?


    It would absolutely shock us that someone would not consider those things important. I am pretty sure he would be equally shocked to hear that someone thought they WERE important.

    He genuinely does not see them as real, important, or of any value. Neither do his voters.

    So we end up with total incomprehension when his world meets ours. Both sides blinking in disbelief. Unable to believe that the other side is even being serious. “They must be up to something, it must be a trick. Because no one could possibly believe that”.

    Well... they do.
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  7. #7
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    What is “The West”

    -Free press
    -Responsible government
    -Rule of law
    -Peaceful transfer of power
    -Rationalism
    -Evidence based, independent judiciary
    -Separation of Powers
    -Rules based international order
    -Civil Rights
    -Free markets
    ————-

    Within that framework, different political parties debate over how best to realize those goals.


    If you don’t support those things, you’re not “The West”.

    50% of US voters, and 20 - 30 % of voters in other democratic nations, are not “The West. They’re not. They never have been. They have despised it since day one. They don’t agree with a single lick of it.

    That’s our battleground.

    If The West wants to defend itself we need to marginalize that 25-50% of voters, or persuade them.


    I’d suggest the latter.
    Last edited by Dr.Knuckles; 11th June 2018 at 08:43 AM.
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    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    What is “The West”

    -Free press
    -Responsible government
    -Rule of law
    -Peaceful transfer of power
    -Rationalism
    -Evidence based, independent judiciary
    -Separation of Powers
    -Rules based international order
    -Civil Rights
    -Free markets
    ————-

    Within that framework, different political parties debate over how best to realize those goals.


    If you don’t support those things, you’re not “The West”.

    50% of US voters, and 20 - 30 % of voters in other democratic nations, are not “The West. They’re not. They never have been. They have despised it since day one. They don’t agree with a single lick of it.

    That’s our battleground.

    If The West wants to defend itself we need to marginalize that 25-50% of voters, or persuade them.


    I’d suggest the latter.
    That's a pretty damn good list, Dr. Knuckles! I'd probably add a few things to it, but a damn good list!

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    Rent Free in Lefty Heads excalibur's Avatar
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    It isn't 1945 any longer. Time to move on, no permanent alliances.

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    Senior Member BoiseBo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebateDrone View Post
    The next US President will have to do an apology tour to our ally nations.

    Thank god our allies, Canada, UK, France, Italy, Germany, Australia, Mexico, and Japan understand it's not us...it's the menace.

    Donny the Menace.
    Yep, if only Mr Wilson were still alive to bring him in check ...

    Thanks from Friday13

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