1421: The Year China Discovered America

Tedminator

Former Staff
Jun 2010
26,490
18,531
South Florida
#31
If the ships were left to rot at their moorings and the records of their journeys were destroyed, how do we know this voyage actually happened?
Why do they think these Chinese ships reached America? Did they make maps?
Menzies' hypothesis is far fetched.. historian Robert Finlay severely criticized Menzies in the Journal of World History for his "reckless manner of dealing with evidence" that led him to propose hypotheses "without a shred of proof".


Anyhooo here is map of the actual Zheng Fleet voyages that do have proof..

 
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Jun 2014
59,999
34,322
Cleveland, Ohio
#32
Menzies' hypothesis is far fetched.. historian Robert Finlay severely criticized Menzies in the Journal of World History for his "reckless manner of dealing with evidence" that led him to propose hypotheses "without a shred of proof".


Anyhooo here is map of the actual Zheng Fleet voyages that do have proof..

China made it to Australia but not Japan, by 1421?

And what proof is there that Chinese ships reached Australia?
 
May 2016
3,559
882
california
#33
Well, SOMEBODY skipped a few history lessons.

But even assuming you are correct, what distinguishes a settlement at Jamestown from the tribes that surrounded them?

The Hopis established cities in Arizona in 1100 A.D.

What else did they lack before you would call them "modern"? Manufacturing?
I'm not making a judgement, just saying it has changed radically.
 
Likes: 1 person
Jun 2014
59,999
34,322
Cleveland, Ohio
#34
I'm not making a judgement, just saying it has changed radically.
Fair enough. And clearly, there were scientific and mechanical accomplishments, etc., among Europeans that were not likewise achieved by North Americans.

Etc.
 

Tedminator

Former Staff
Jun 2010
26,490
18,531
South Florida
#35
China made it to Australia but not Japan, by 1421?

And what proof is there that Chinese ships reached Australia?
That map just shows specific voyages (I think you might be mistaking Borneo for Oz on that map). As for Japan, those islands were colonized by mainland chinese long before the 1400s.

Anyhoo heres a link with supporting info if youre interested.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming_treasure_voyages
 
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Likes: 1 person
Feb 2011
15,371
9,822
The formerly great golden state
#36
1 China made it to Australia but not Japan, by 1421?

2 And what proof is there that Chinese ships reached Australia?
1. Must have just sailed on by without noticing.
2. They drew a map. They should have taken a few selfies with the kangaroos, but they must have forgotten.
 
Jul 2011
3,409
4,962
UK/Australia
#38
1. Must have just sailed on by without noticing.
2. They drew a map. They should have taken a few selfies with the kangaroos, but they must have forgotten.
It's an understandable mistake. Most Americans seem to have a mental picture of Australia as 'this little island at the bottom of the map'. Few realise that it is actually larger than the continental United States, and when American tourists visit - they are shocked at the distances. Australia's relatively small population tends to further the misapprehension. :)
 
Likes: 1 person
Jun 2014
59,999
34,322
Cleveland, Ohio
#39
It's an understandable mistake. Most Americans seem to have a mental picture of Australia as 'this little island at the bottom of the map'. Few realise that it is actually larger than the continental United States, and when American tourists visit - they are shocked at the distances. Australia's relatively small population tends to further the misapprehension. :)
Well, now, be fair. What else is directly south of Asia and of any considerable size?
 
Jan 2016
46,213
42,086
Colorado
#40
It's an understandable mistake. Most Americans seem to have a mental picture of Australia as 'this little island at the bottom of the map'. Few realise that it is actually larger than the continental United States, and when American tourists visit - they are shocked at the distances. Australia's relatively small population tends to further the misapprehension. :)
Sadly, most Americans probably don't even know the difference between Australia and Austria.


I'm not at all sure that Donald Trump would, for instance.

:concern:
 
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