1421: The Year China Discovered America

Jul 2011
3,409
4,962
UK/Australia
#41
Sadly, most Americans probably don't even know the difference between Australia and Austria.


I'm not at all sure that Donald Trump would, for instance.

:concern:
You're not wrong. I used to laugh at tales like this before I visited your fair land, but I was talking an American friend of a friend a few years ago, who thought I was an Australian. She said something like "I understand that you are from Australia - but my dear, you speak such perfect English. Did you learn that in school?" I was naughty enough to answer "Ich danke Ihnen gnädige frau, aber Ich spreche Englisch zu Hause." :D
 
Likes: 3 people
Feb 2011
15,371
9,822
The formerly great golden state
#42
Sadly, most Americans probably don't even know the difference between Australia and Austria.


I'm not at all sure that Donald Trump would, for instance.

:concern:
It's unlikely his supporters would know the difference. All them there furrin' nations are the same, all sucking at Uncle Sam's teat! Hey, build a wall and Make America Great Again!
 
Likes: 1 person
Jan 2016
46,213
42,087
Colorado
#43
Menzies' hypothesis is far fetched.. historian Robert Finlay severely criticized Menzies in the Journal of World History for his "reckless manner of dealing with evidence" that led him to propose hypotheses "without a shred of proof".


Anyhooo here is map of the actual Zheng Fleet voyages that do have proof..

Interesting map. At the time of his death in 1405, the aging Tamerlane was headed east with his vast army to challenge the mighty Ming Empire of China. Tamerlane had never been defeated in battle, had already humbled the Ottoman Empire by capturing the Sultan (the ONLY time that ever happened to the Ottoman Empire), and had made the Golden Horde Khanate a vassal state. Some consider him to be possibly the greatest military genius of all time, ahead of Alexander and Napoleon.


Zheng He's fleet, if not himself, is known to have reached at least a bit farther south in East Africa than the map shows. They got at least as far as Zanzibar, and POSSIBLY Madagascar.
 
Apr 2012
10,688
4,390
East coast USA
#44
The story claims super fleet but it's not possible to sail a wooden ship longer than 300 feet long.
 
Feb 2011
15,371
9,822
The formerly great golden state
#45
The story claims super fleet but it's not possible to sail a wooden ship longer than 300 feet long.
Hmm. I'd heard somewhere that there is a maximum length to wooden ships, so I looked it up. Found this:

Longest known wooden ships
This transport-related list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it.
Length Beam Name Service Current status Comment
140 m
(450 ft) 15.3 m
(50 ft 1 in) Wyoming 1909–1924 sunk[1] This American ship had a tendency to flex in heavy seas, causing the long planks to twist and buckle.[2] This allowed sea water into the hold, which had to be pumped out.[3] The overall length including jibboom was 450 feet (140 m).
There are more, but copying and pasting scrambles up the words. You can see that the first one listed was 450 feet, but that it tended to flex in high seas. That might be the outer limit of wooden ships.

500 feet is a suspect number, then, but so is the use of feet before feet were used to measure things.

Note: Chinese tend to have small feet LOL
 
May 2010
94
6
#46
That map just shows specific voyages (I think you might be mistaking Borneo for Oz on that map). As for Japan, those islands were colonized by mainland chinese long before the 1400s.

Anyhoo heres a link with supporting info if youre interested.. Ming treasure voyages - Wikipedia
Japan was never colonized by the Chinese. The ancestors of the modern Japanense migrated to the islands, probably from Korea, at some unknown date prior to the 600sBC, when the still-reigning Imperial dynasty was founded. The Japanese language is unrelated to Chinese, indicating an ancient separation from the Chinese thousands of years BC.

The Mongol Chinese Yuan dynasty failed twice to conquer Japan in the 1200s. After then it left Japan alone permanently, excepting intervention aggainst Japan during a Japanese invaion of Korea in the 1500s.
 
Jun 2014
59,999
34,322
Cleveland, Ohio
#47
Hooray, finally a topic about something that isn't tit for tat American politics!

Did a Chinese fleet sail to America in the early 15th century? No! Almost certainly not. Zheng He's fleets did sail far and wide - throughout South-East Asia, India, Arabia and Africa. We know this because there is actual evidence for it happening. These voyages are well documented in Chinese records, and there is even archaeological evidence of 15th century Chinese in East Africa. The supposed journey to America, however, is not mentioned in any contemporary source, nor did the Chinese leave any trace of their presence in the Americas.

As for St. Brendan, it's just an old myth. There is, once again, zero evidence of him having gone to America. It's just one more of the nationalist fantasies people have dreamt up to prove that their ancestors were in America first. An old story about someone sailing to unknown lands is not evidence of a medieval trip to America.
Sorry, no. It is offeBnsive to me that anyone suggests non-whitr people from China discovered non-white people in 'Murica.

Nobody can have a party without white European. That would be a dangerous attempt at killing white culture.

Lol.
 
Jun 2014
59,999
34,322
Cleveland, Ohio
#48
Perhaps we should allow Samuel Clemens (aka Mark Twain) the last word on discovering America.

“It was wonderful to find America, but it would have been more wonderful to miss it.” :D
Sorry no. Mark Twain was not the right guy for this job. He was not a racist. His now-offensive language was radical in the U.S. because his black characters are fully human and very interesting.

Kindly stop trying to claim credit for American exceptionalism in literature.

Lolol.
 
Likes: Leo2
Jun 2014
59,999
34,322
Cleveland, Ohio
#49
Japan was never colonized by the Chinese. The ancestors of the modern Japanense migrated to the islands, probably from Korea, at some unknown date prior to the 600sBC, when the still-reigning Imperial dynasty was founded. The Japanese language is unrelated to Chinese, indicating an ancient separation from the Chinese thousands of years BC.

The Mongol Chinese Yuan dynasty failed twice to conquer Japan in the 1200s. After then it left Japan alone permanently, excepting intervention aggainst Japan during a Japanese invaion of Korea in the 1500s.
Whit? Then why do the Japanese hate the Chinese for so long, that was a contributing factor in causing WWII?

It is true, I think, that Japan had a cultural and religious certain belief that they would conquer the Eastern hemisphere so extreme, they started a war with no real basis of hope they could ever win.

Germany at least had a chance. A small chance, but not none.

Japan bombed Pearl Harbor!
 
May 2010
94
6
#50
Whit? Then why do the Japanese hate the Chinese for so long, that was a contributing factor in causing WWII?
Everything I wrote is historical fact. Please clarify your objection.


It is true, I think, that Japan had a cultural and religious certain belief that they would conquer the Eastern hemisphere so extreme,
Agree.


they started a war with no real basis of hope they could ever win.
Disagree.

The Japanese had boundless self-confidence.


Germany at least had a chance. A small chance, but not none.

Japan bombed Pearl Harbor!
If Japan had left the USA alone no one could have stopped it as long as the USSR had to devote most of its attention to Germany.
 

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