A message for Warren & Sanders.

Jan 2020
100
50
USA
Scarcity doesn't rule over me, it just determines the cost of things I may or may not decide to purchase.
Are you sure? Do you have to lock your doors, your valuables, your car, your locker, hope the economy does well, hope people in deeper scarcity around the world aren't trying to flood into the country, hope you aren't mugged, hope that any oppressive government (made more powerful by scarcity among the people) won't undermine our liberties, hope that people in poverty and ignorance don't vote against their own interests... and in turn against yours?

We're a world ruled by scarcity.

Countries invade other countries for oil.

They'll never invade for sunshine or wind which exist in massive abundance everywhere.

So, so many examples. Let me know if you'd like more.


Personal needs rarely grow on a tree in your back yard.
They will though (not literally). It might sound like a far future dream, that's because people cannot fathom exponential growth and advancement. Technology is accelerating and will ramp up beyond your wildest dreams, the same as computers the size of a room and costing many millions of dollars have shrunk to tiny handheld gadgets so cheap over half the world has them.

It's happening with a whole lot of technologies. Look up converging technologies + exponential + digitization.

Also compare the costs of the human genome project about 20 years ago to the costs of such genetic efforts now.

People are not fully free until death.
Actions speak louder than words. If you believed that, wouldn't you already be dead?

Humans are competitive by nature. If you breed that out of us, we will die as a species.
Hmm, by my own logic, that will free us all. LOL.
Who says we need misery and scarcity in order to compete? We'd be more free than ever, free to explore, grow with family, play sports, hike the highest mountains, whatever fits your fancy.

Sounds like Stockholm syndrome to want to cling onto a world of scarcity. Yet actions speak louder than words... are you sure you'd say "no thanks" if you were offered a life free of work that you had to do for survival? (Instead of work you do because you created and love it)
 
Jan 2020
100
50
USA
when you give the government the responsibility for funding your medical needs, you also give the government the parental responsibility of regulating any behaviors it may find detrimental to your health. It's a very slippery slope.
Replace "medical" with "policing". Curiously it still works.

Hmmm. Nice!

If what you say is true, either way the result is detrimental to health. Do you believe that all the affected people in your scenario would outnumber all the people who die and go bankrupt from lack of healthcare do to your voting against universal healthcare? If yes please explain.

In my opinion certain voting choices are detrimental to the health of many people.

Would you say either way people are fucked? "You either get your life together like me or die" (entirely unnecessary game by the way)
 
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Apr 2018
14,081
3,718
oregon
Are you sure?
Yes, I'm sure.
Do you have to lock your doors, your valuables, your car, your locker,
No, I don't have to do those things.
hope the economy does well, hope people in deeper scarcity around the world aren't trying to flood into the country, hope you aren't mugged, hope that any oppressive government (made more powerful by scarcity among the people) won't undermine our liberties, hope that people in poverty and ignorance don't vote against their own interests... and in turn against yours?
Nah, I don't hope for such things. I deal with the individual situations as they arise, determining whether they have any real bearing on my life and whether or not my available actions would have a discernible effect on the outcomes.
We're a world ruled by scarcity.
Perhaps in the world you perceive, but mine is not ruled by scarcity. It's ruled by my choices and abilities.
Countries invade other countries for oil.
Indeed, they do, amongst other reasons.
They'll never invade for sunshine or wind which exist in massive abundance everywhere.
But they will for religious dogma, which also exists in abundance everywhere.
So, so many examples. Let me know if you'd like more.
Every example you can provide can be counted with another example. Let's not waste our time doing so.
They will though (not literally). It might sound like a far future dream, that's because people cannot fathom exponential growth and advancement. Technology is accelerating and will ramp up beyond your wildest dreams, the same as computers the size of a room and costing many millions of dollars have shrunk to tiny handheld gadgets so cheap over half the world has them.
It's silly to have this conversation before such technologies exist. I live in the present. The past is immutable and the future is undetermined.
It's happening with a whole lot of technologies. Look up converging technologies + exponential + digitization and compare the costs of the human genome project about 20 years ago to the costs of such genetic efforts now.
Happening and happened are vastly different scenarios. Until your optimistic future has been attained, it hasn't. I live in the here and now, where you have to earn your way through life or suffer a meager existence.
Actions speak louder than words. If you believed that, wouldn't you already be dead?
I'll be dead soon enough. No one gets out alive. That being said, I do enjoy both the pleasures and challenges of the flesh for the time being. Total freedom will come in due time.
Who says we need misery and scarcity in order to compete?
I give up, who says that? I only contend that humans are genetically wired to compete. It's manifested in every country worldwide. Sports, finance, employment, mating. A;ll competitive endeavors.
We'd be more free than ever, free to explore, grow with family, play sports, hike the highest mountains, whatever fits your fancy.
You can do that now.
Sounds like Stockholm syndrome to want to cling onto a world of scarcity.
I disagree with your premise of a world of scarcity.
Yet actions speak louder than words... are you sure you'd say "no thanks" if you were offered a life free of work that you had to do for survival? (Instead of work you do because you created and love it)
It depends on what the price would be for said life.
 
Apr 2018
14,081
3,718
oregon
Replace "medical" with "policing". Curiously it still works.

Hmmm. Nice!

If what you say is true, either way the result is detrimental to health. Do you believe that all the affected people in your scenario would outnumber all the people who die and go bankrupt from lack of healthcare do to your voting against universal healthcare? If yes please explain.

In my opinion certain voting choices are detrimental to the health of many people.

Would you say either way people are fucked? "You either get your life together like me or die" (entirely unnecessary game by the way)
We live in a reality of degrees/compromise. Some government regulation is necessary for a society to exist. Every government law/regulation/mandate comes with a cost in personal liberty and autonomy. I suspect we disagree upon the degree of government influence and responsibility over individuals.
 
Jan 2020
100
50
USA
No, I don't have to do those things.
Most people do lock their doors and valuables. They are in the majority. Maybe you're better off on an island where no one's decisions will bother you?

It's ruled by my choices and abilities.
So if choices and abilities at the ballot box choose universal healthcare, fuck yeah!

But they will for religious dogma, which also exists in abundance everywhere.
Countries couldn't invade to grab up their sunshine and wind. Every single person can directly access and connect to that source of power.

Where only an elite few can connect directly to oil, coal, depending on whether they own a coal mine or an oil field, or can lease the land.

Energy is a resource that every person uses to power machines, heat homes, cool down homes, and drive vehicles. Religious dogma isn't useful at all. And religious dogma goes hand in hand with scarcity. Countries where the people install their own renewable energy and have greater abundance also have much lower rates of religious dogma.

So scarcity affected the shit out of us on 9/11.

I live in the present. The past is immutable and the future is undetermined.
So glad the founders didn't think like that, or they never would've tried to change the future with an important document. Also much of the science you enjoy comes from planning from investments into the future... unless you don't use anything scientifically derived (except your internet).

I only contend that humans are genetically wired to compete. It's manifested in every country worldwide. Sports, finance, employment, mating. A;ll competitive endeavors.
Sports, mating, and competitive endeavors all continue to exist in a world of abundance, except even more than ever.

Compare the sheer variety of sports (football, baseball, basketball, tennis, golf, racecar driving, marathons, racquetball, motocross, hill climbs, surfing, mountain climbing, jet skiing) and the percentage of people participating in countries with a high per capita wealth compared to countries with deepest poverty.

Abundance increases sports participation.
 
Mar 2012
60,679
41,977
New Hampshire
If everyone loves Medicare for all so much why is Biden still in the lead??? Seems people say one thing but vote differently.
 
Apr 2018
14,081
3,718
oregon
Most people do lock their doors and valuables. They are in the majority.
I do, too. But I don't have to.
Maybe you're better off on an island where no one's decisions will bother you?
I could say the same to you.
So if choices and abilities at the ballot box choose universal healthcare, fuck yeah!
Thus far, in over 200 years, they haven't. Fuck yeah!
Countries couldn't invade to grab up their sunshine and wind. Every single person can directly access and connect to that source of power.
At this point, those are not viable sources of energy for our needs.
Where only an elite few can connect directly to oil, coal, depending on whether they own a coal mine or an oil field, or can lease the land.
Go ahead and use all the solar and wind energy you can afford. The rest of us will enjoy the modern conveniences that can only be fueled by oil, coal, and nuclear.
Energy is a resource that every person uses to power machines, heat homes, cool down homes, and drive vehicles.
True, and wind/solar is insufficient for said needs.
Religious dogma isn't useful at all.
Millions would disagree. I wouldn't be one of them. It doesn't change the fact that it's driven invasions just as often as oil, historically more, actually.
And religious dogma goes hand in hand with scarcity.
In your opinion.
Countries where the people install their own renewable energy and have greater abundance also have much lower rates of religious dogma.
Correlation is not necessarily causation. Logic.
So scarcity affected the shit out of us on 9/11.
In your opinion. Mine differs. Regardless, nothing you've brought to the table is proof that we are "ruled by scarcity".
So glad the founders didn't think like that, or they never would've tried to change the future with an important document.
They were trying to change the present. And they succeeded. The present becomes the future.
Also much of the science you enjoy comes from planning from investments into the future... unless you don't use anything scientifically derived (except your internet).
You're just babbling now. Every scientific advancement was realized in the present time of its invention/discovery. Your circular logic of the present being the future is childishly shallow. Of course actions today affect the future.
Sports, mating, and competitive endeavors all continue to exist in a world of abundance, except even more than ever.
The human race is competitive by nature. Do we agree?
Compare the sheer variety of sports (football, baseball, basketball, tennis, golf, racecar driving, marathons, racquetball, motocross, hill climbs, surfing, mountain climbing, jet skiing) and the percentage of people participating in countries with a high per capita wealth compared to countries with deepest poverty.
Competition exists outside the boundaries of organized sports. High per capita countries just organize it to a greater degree.
Abundance increases sports participation.
Irrelevant.
 
Feb 2011
20,022
15,207
The formerly great golden state
Quote me saying we had only those two extremes to choose from or be exposed as a liar.
When I said I didn't think I would like to live in a society such as the one you envision, you replied that you didn't want to live in a nanny state. That implies those are the only choices.
 
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