A message for Warren & Sanders.

Apr 2018
14,081
3,718
oregon
When I said I didn't think I would like to live in a society such as the one you envision, you replied that you didn't want to live in a nanny state. That implies those are the only choices.
No, my not wanting to live in a nanny state does not imply that is one of only two choices. It only implies that I wouldn't want to live in your preferred state.
I agree, but those are the two extremes you said were the choices we had.
You've been exposed as a liar.
 
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Jan 2020
91
47
USA
I do, too. But I don't have to.
You do lock your doors, then scarcity affects you.

I could say the same to you.
You'd fail because I accept that the majority decides at the ballot box, including when they decide government won't neglect those in need.

Thus far, in over 200 years, they haven't. Fuck yeah!
They will. And people will be happier, more productive, and free. Even you might be.

Fuuuuuuuck

The rest of us will enjoy the modern conveniences that can only be fueled by oil, coal, and nuclear.
The "rest" of you are shrinking fast. It's the warm, sunny reality. We don't hear much about Trump's promise to save the coal industry, because there isn't saving coal.

You're in for severe disappointment by dreaming of a dying fuel source.

Centralized fuels also make you vulnerable. Puerto Ricco is learning that lesson once again, first by hurricane and now by earthquake.

And your favorite fuels must be brought to you from distant places many times. Or you can extract sunshine and wind from nearby with the parts lasting many years and even decades.

Then there's the war component. Countries gotta seek approval do use nuclear energy... or else.

And if we got rid of all subsidies and tax advantages for every type of energy including for solar and wind, then the centralized fuels would crumble... kiss goodbye oil, coal, and nuclear.

Millions would disagree. I wouldn't be one of them. It doesn't change the fact that it's driven invasions just as often as oil, historically more, actually.
You'll have to show how people extract religion from nature to heat or cool their homes, or feed their family, or to power devices.

Didn't realize you'd be making professional excuses... for what, an internet debate? At least make it honest.

In your opinion.
It's reality that religious dogma goes hand in hand with scarcity.

Abundance equips people with time to explore, gain knowledge, while scarcity equips people to blame food shortages on they angering their gods.

Correlation is not necessarily causation. Logic.
Weak reply. Everything you've said qualifies as correlation.

Every scientific advancement was realized in the present time of its invention/discovery.
Hmmm like the human genome project that brought many advances later? Or like the large Hadron collider which will bring mostly future advancements?

If you're gonna make a stream of dishonest arguments, please start with that disclaimer next time, save everyone time.

The human race is competitive by nature. Do we agree?
More dishonesty by pretending you've answered something different than actually said... and by now I wouldn't expect you to agree.

Gaslighting is futile, so maybe save your energy.

When I mentioned a possible world of abundance, you replied with...

"Humans are competitive by nature. If you breed that out of us, we will die as a species."

To which I replied that you got it backwards, abundance instead would boost competition because it's clear that the nations with the highest levels of abundance are brimming with a large variety of sports and competition.

People living in abundance have more time to compete instead of constantly focused on immediate survival.

Competition exists outside the boundaries of organized sports. High per capita countries just organize it to a greater degree.
The list of sports weren't meant to represent all sports in existence. They reveal that abundance fuels competition.

Irrelevant.
Far more relevant than you probably believe.
 
Apr 2018
14,081
3,718
oregon
You do lock your doors, then scarcity affects you.
You said I have to lock my doors. I don't have to. Scarcity has nothing to do with it.
You're obviously the 2020 version of a 1960s flower child, all starry-eyed and dreaming of the Age of Aquarius and all, but the real world isn't quite so tidy.
I wish you well on your journey to realistic maturity.
You'd fail because I accept that the majority decides at the ballot box, including when they decide government won't neglect those in need.
Good, get used to accepting the fact that you're responsible for paying for your own healthcare, then. There is no UHC here, its only in your wishy-washy hopes for the future.
They will. And people will be happier, more productive, and free. Even you might be.
Sure thing. Now get back to work. Table three needs bussing.
The "rest" of you are shrinking fast.
Nope. The only thing shrinking is my patience responding to your hippie-dippy bullshit. :)
It's the warm, sunny reality.
The warm sunny reality is that Trump is POTUS, there is no UHC, the individual mandate has been determined unconstitutional, and the courts are being stacked with lifetime conservative appointees. A great time to be a fan of American Liberty.
We don't hear much about Trump's promise to save the coal industry, because there isn't saving coal.
I hear about it fairly often. You should venture out of the bubble occasionally.
You're in for severe disappointment by dreaming of a dying fuel source.
I'm not dreaming of any fuel source. You're the one dreaming of some silly utopian future where everything is provided to everyone. Talk about naive.
Centralized fuels also make you vulnerable. Puerto Ricco is learning that lesson once again, first by hurricane and now by earthquake.
I'm all for a mix of fuel sources. Each has its place. Oil based fuels are great for large and powerful engines. The sun is exceptional at powering small calculators.
And your favorite fuels must be brought to you from distant places many times. Or you can extract sunshine and wind from nearby with the parts lasting many years and even decades.
I don't have a favorite fuel. That's a child's perspective.
Then there's the war component. Countries gotta seek approval do use nuclear energy... or else.
So what? That's actually an old war strategy: prevent your opponents from aquiring weaponry that's as good as yours.
And if we got rid of all subsidies and tax advantages for every type of energy including for solar and wind, then the centralized fuels would crumble... kiss goodbye oil, coal, and nuclear.
You aren't even making sense now.
You'll have to show how people extract religion from nature to heat or cool their homes, or feed their family, or to power devices.
No I won't. Any educated person realizes far more wars have been waged over religious differences than over oil.
Didn't realize you'd be making professional excuses... for what, an internet debate? At least make it honest.
This isn't a debate, this is me intellectually skewering you and your utopian fantasies.
It's reality that religious dogma goes hand in hand with scarcity.
Correlation is not necessarily causation. Logic.
Abundance equips people with time to explore, gain knowledge, while scarcity equips people to blame food shortages on they angering their gods.
I love it. You're the reason people are voting for Trump. Abundance has never come from government handouts and wealth redistribution.
Weak reply. Everything you've said qualifies as correlation.
Incorrect. Twice.
Hmmm like the human genome project that brought many advances later? Or like the large Hadron collider which will bring mostly future advancements?
You seem confused. Future "advancements" will come about at the present time of said advancement.
If you're gonna make a stream of dishonest arguments, please start with that disclaimer next time, save everyone time.
More dishonesty by pretending you've answered something different than actually said... and by now I wouldn't expect you to agree. Gaslighting is futile, so maybe save your energy. When I mentioned a possible world of abundance, you replied with...
"Humans are competitive by nature. If you breed that out of us, we will die as a species."
To which I replied that you got it backwards, abundance instead would boost competition because it's clear that the nations with the highest levels of abundance are brimming with a large variety of sports and competition. People living in abundance have more time to compete instead of constantly focused on immediate survival.
The list of sports weren't meant to represent all sports in existence. They reveal that abundance fuels competition.
Far more relevant than you probably believe.
You're just babbling now. Thanks for the entertainment. ;)
 
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Jan 2020
91
47
USA
Quotation Violation
You're the one observing a coming future where everyone provides everything to themselves.
Aww you're still here? Pats your head, scratches behind your ears


There, there, I FTFY since you seem to have gone stray.

Go reread my original statement and you'll see it's exactly what I had written. Loosen your ideological collar so it doesn't choke your reality as much, orange kitty. ;)

Hint: self sufficiency has zero to do with government
 
Jan 2020
91
47
USA
Gonna give you a helping hand with your homework by quoting from my first comment so you can avoid slanting it. Don't cough a hairball on it

Behold:

"We're at the cusp of being able to tackle many major problems personally in our lives and as a species."

"and start shifting to a mindset that resonates with the idea of grassroots abundance by communities of self sufficiency that freely / organically organize..."

"We can get there with the help of advances in technology and access to open communication / knowledge."

"With grassroots abundance at local levels and full liberty along with more personal power against disease and the effects of aging, our psychological health will likely grow and mature more constructively."

(Emphasis mine, to aid you)

(Note: it's all about personal efforts and forming grassroots communities, zero about government... you invented it)
 

CtC

Mar 2019
14,451
5,224
California
Are you sure? Do you have to lock your doors, your valuables, your car, your locker, hope the economy does well, hope people in deeper scarcity around the world aren't trying to flood into the country, hope you aren't mugged, hope that any oppressive government (made more powerful by scarcity among the people) won't undermine our liberties, hope that people in poverty and ignorance don't vote against their own interests... and in turn against yours?

We're a world ruled by scarcity.

Countries invade other countries for oil.

They'll never invade for sunshine or wind which exist in massive abundance everywhere.

So, so many examples. Let me know if you'd like more.




They will though (not literally). It might sound like a far future dream, that's because people cannot fathom exponential growth and advancement. Technology is accelerating and will ramp up beyond your wildest dreams, the same as computers the size of a room and costing many millions of dollars have shrunk to tiny handheld gadgets so cheap over half the world has them.

It's happening with a whole lot of technologies. Look up converging technologies + exponential + digitization.

Also compare the costs of the human genome project about 20 years ago to the costs of such genetic efforts now.


Actions speak louder than words. If you believed that, wouldn't you already be dead?


Who says we need misery and scarcity in order to compete? We'd be more free than ever, free to explore, grow with family, play sports, hike the highest mountains, whatever fits your fancy.

Sounds like Stockholm syndrome to want to cling onto a world of scarcity. Yet actions speak louder than words... are you sure you'd say "no thanks" if you were offered a life free of work that you had to do for survival? (Instead of work you do because you created and love it)
Who cares? The WORLD is what it is. The USA has no scarcity.