An open discussion on feminism

BDBoop

Former Staff
Dec 2010
46,633
43,361
Twitter
#1
I just read a post that completely resonated (in a galaxy far, far away) by a poster named Reim Antoinette. I give her name because I had to request her permission to share her post (which she was kind enough to grant.) Her post was in response to another poster's claim that feminism directly competes with classic male gender.

As stated above, the following are not my own words, but sometimes I see all the words italicized and I just sort of skip over them sooooo ....

QUOTED:

Could people who don't understand the basic tenants of movements please stop talking about them? Yes, Feminism looks at gender roles and says "Fuck this, there's no puropose for it!" because, well, there isn't. What the hell is so productive about them? They don't help innovation. In fact, I'd say telling half of the human population that they can't do something hinders innovation. If you find that you like the classic male identity, fine, keep that for yourself. If a women wants to be a housewife who takes care of her husband. Cool, good for her. And if you find that you don't fit either or, hey, don't feel like you have a gender at all, good for you too!


The problem that Feminists take with this idea of 'male identity' is that it often involves being sexist, homophobic, and transphobic. There are plenty of men who support Feminism, plenty of them are white, cis, straight men. Yet, they don't seem to have any problem accepting that they have a privilege that over half of the population doesn't. Do you see why Feminists would have a problem with this idea of 'male identity'? Honestly, I don't care if you're a walking sterotype, and I'll happily debate anyone who thinks that way. As long as you accept that you're playing the game of life on the easiest setting, I don't care. I'm not exactly the most butch-y girl (does that make any sense? Oh, I hope that maeks sense). I wear dresses and make-up. I like pink. I usually squee when I see cute animals and characters that I have crushes on (granted, they're more like 'oh my god your so clever I just want to take tea and talk and oh my god your wonderful. And the characters are usually magnificient bastards who spend most of their time manipulaiting everyone in the universe. And lots of villains. And they're all girls. Still, it's squeeing. And it can be loud.)

Author: Reim Antoinette

^^ who hopefully will swing by and say hey, and maybe discuss the subject further! :)
 
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Likes: 14 people
Jul 2014
11
39
The Cold State of Minnesota
#3
Hello! I would be the Reim Antoinette that BDBoop is quoting! I'm not sure how much else I can add, but that's mainly because I'm far better improv than memorizing my lines. As I mentioned in the original text, I'm fairly girly. Well, as girly as a geek who spends most of her time obsessing over fictional characters and universes can be. I wear make-up, I hate wearing pants, my hair would be pink and black if I had the money for it. And I fully support Feminism. I actually remember once asking my mom why she used male pronouns when refering to a stuffed animal I had. And her answer was 'That's how it is'. And that kind of stuff has always annoyed me. Why would you want to do something simply because that's how it's always done? I get that there are some things in which we probably should avoid trying too many new things without prior testing, but is how we view genders really one of them?

Honestly, as I mentioned in the original post, I think that we're hindered by having gender roles. There's a post that I've seen a few times on Tumblr that goes something like "Just think of all the brilliant minds we've lost because they were locked up in mental hospitals." For those of you who don't spend absurd amounts of time researching the Victorian era, if a women showed interest in science, math, or any male-dominated field, many families would pretend they were insane and send them away to a mental hospital. Not always (we did have the amazing Ada Lovelace, a mathematician who created algorithems that we now use in computer programming), but it happened. Think of how many inventions, how many brilliant women got locked up because they didn't fit a man-made role. How many Marie Curies we may have had, but didn't because their families were afraid of social standing. Think of all of the great minds who were physically or mentally disabled, who were LGBTQ+, and who we lost because we feared.

EDIT- Okay, I thought that I should add this because it slightly has something to do with this. There is a book called "Wildthorn" about a girl who gets sent to an asylum because she wants to go to the women's medical school in london. It's not the most deep story (YA) but it's still pretty good as far as LGBTQ+ YA goes. It's also pretty good on explaining how these women often got put in the institutions. There's also the musician Emilie Autumn, who may or may not have lied about a lot of things, but she wrote a book/musical about a girl who gets thrown into an asylum in the Victorian era, supposedly based on here own experiances and a story she wrote while there. The music certainly isn't for everyone, but it does give a decent idea as to what some Victorian mental institutions were like, and how modern mental healthcare can sometimes be horrible as well.
 
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BDBoop

Former Staff
Dec 2010
46,633
43,361
Twitter
#4
Hello! I would be the Reim Antoinette that BDBoop is quoting! I'm not sure how much else I can add, but that's mainly because I'm far better improv than memorizing my lines. As I mentioned in the original text, I'm fairly girly. Well, as girly as a geek who spends most of her time obsessing over fictional characters and universes can be. I wear make-up, I hate wearing pants, my hair would be pink and black if I had the money for it. And I fully support Feminism. I actually remember once asking my mom why she used male pronouns when refering to a stuffed animal I had. And her answer was 'That's how it is'. And that kind of stuff has always annoyed me. Why would you want to do something simply because that's how it's always done? I get that there are some things in which we probably should avoid trying too many new things without prior testing, but is how we view genders really one of them?

Honestly, as I mentioned in the original post, I think that we're hindered by having gender roles. There's a post that I've seen a few times on Tumblr that goes something like "Just think of all the brilliant minds we've lost because they were locked up in mental hospitals." For those of you who don't spend absurd amounts of time researching the Victorian era, if a women showed interest in science, math, or any male-dominated field, many families would pretend they were insane and send them away to a mental hospital. Not always (we did have the amazing Ada Lovelace, a mathematician who created algorithems that we now use in computer programming), but it happened. Think of how many inventions, how many brilliant women got locked up because they didn't fit a man-made role. How many Marie Curies we may have had, but didn't because their families were afraid of social standing. Think of all of the great minds who were physically or mentally disabled, who were LGBTQ+, and who we lost because we feared.
"And when you're done crying ... "

/moment of silence

I have a lot to bring to this thread. I think the biggest mistake civil rights activists have made is in thinking "Right, then! Our work here is done." Complacency doesn't lead to stagnation, it leads to lost ground. So we'll just have to keep fighting the good fight, or we will lose what was so hard fought-for and won.
 
Likes: 3 people
Jun 2014
2,392
345
Wouldn't you like to know?
#5
My biggest gripe with the Feminazis is that they all hate men, period. And they think that until men are completely subjugated if not outright eliminated they won't be happy.
 
Jul 2014
11
39
The Cold State of Minnesota
#6
"And when you're done crying ... "

/moment of silence

I have a lot to bring to this thread. I think the biggest mistake civil rights activists have made is in thinking "Right, then! Our work here is done." Complacency doesn't lead to stagnation, it leads to lost ground. So we'll just have to keep fighting the good fight, or we will lose what was so hard fought-for and won.
/Erratic applasuse

Yes. This is such a huge mistake that so, so many people have made. Change needs to be constant. We need to be saying "Okay, so what else should be done? Who else needs to be included? What's been overlooked?" There is, however, another thing that I think has been equally damaging to Feminism. People saying 'Feminism is about equality!' instead of actually explaining the goals of Feminism. Feminism is about dismantalling a system that favors one type of person over another, so that we can work towards equality. Now, I totally understand why people started doing this. That last one doesn't exactly fit on a bumper sticker, and in world where nearly everyone (at least, in America) hides under their beds at the sound of the words 'political debate', you'd want to avoid it. However, understanding isn't condoning. I understand why people are homophobic, but I still think they are completely and utterly wrong.

When people hear 'Feminism is about equality!' and procede to see Feminists saying things like 'You can't be sexist against men!' without understanding what exactly they mean by that, it's no wonder so many people hate Feminists, yet still can't even understand what Feminism is.
 
Likes: 2 people
Jun 2014
2,392
345
Wouldn't you like to know?
#8
/Erratic applasuse

Yes. This is such a huge mistake that so, so many people have made. Change needs to be constant. We need to be saying "Okay, so what else should be done? Who else needs to be included? What's been overlooked?" There is, however, another thing that I think has been equally damaging to Feminism. People saying 'Feminism is about equality!' instead of actually explaining the goals of Feminism. Feminism is about dismantalling a system that favors one type of person over another, so that we can work towards equality. Now, I totally understand why people started doing this. That last one doesn't exactly fit on a bumper sticker, and in world where nearly everyone (at least, in America) hides under their beds at the sound of the words 'political debate', you'd want to avoid it. However, understanding isn't condoning. I understand why people are homophobic, but I still think they are completely and utterly wrong.

When people hear 'Feminism is about equality!' and procede to see Feminists saying things like 'You can't be sexist against men!' without understanding what exactly they mean by that, it's no wonder so many people hate Feminists, yet still can't even understand what Feminism is.
Oh sure, and until men are under your rule you won't be happy.