Are some churches just havens for the degenerate?

Sep 2019
162
11
Evolution's bosom
Obviously church and state are good tools for curbing many of the degenerates, but at the same time, in some cases, are churches really just means of keeping in line those who are too weak to control their impulses, such as not raping and murdering, of their own accord?

(Even in world religions, including the Bible, it expects people to be above and beyond this, if people actually read the lifestyles that people, such as Jesus and Paul were advocating however in practice, it seems like a lot of people lack any will or self discipline of their own, and might be rapists, murderers, or otherwise if they weren't "told" not to do it).

It seems in many cases, churches are just about curbing immorality in the masses rather than cultivating virtue and morality - much as the state is.
 

CtC

Mar 2019
14,502
5,237
California
Obviously church and state are good tools for curbing many of the degenerates, but at the same time, in some cases, are churches really just means of keeping in line those who are too weak to control their impulses, such as not raping and murdering, of their own accord?

(Even in world religions, including the Bible, it expects people to be above and beyond this, if people actually read the lifestyles that people, such as Jesus and Paul were advocating however in practice, it seems like a lot of people lack any will or self discipline of their own, and might be rapists, murderers, or otherwise if they weren't "told" not to do it).

It seems in many cases, churches are just about curbing immorality in the masses rather than cultivating virtue and morality - much as the state is.
Your point being?
 
Feb 2015
17,125
8,768
sadness
Obviously church and state are good tools for curbing many of the degenerates, but at the same time, in some cases, are churches really just means of keeping in line those who are too weak to control their impulses, such as not raping and murdering, of their own accord?

(Even in world religions, including the Bible, it expects people to be above and beyond this, if people actually read the lifestyles that people, such as Jesus and Paul were advocating however in practice, it seems like a lot of people lack any will or self discipline of their own, and might be rapists, murderers, or otherwise if they weren't "told" not to do it).

It seems in many cases, churches are just about curbing immorality in the masses rather than cultivating virtue and morality - much as the state is.
are you a puritan by any chance?

Where have you been? The church does not keep anyone in line.... hell they cant even keep their own in line. ie... not raping.

The church.. and that is any church... runs one of the oldest doges of all time. Hiding behind the cloth, virtue signalling behind the "word of god"

The only way the chruch can keep anyone in line is with fear. Fear that if they dont do exactaly what they are being told they will be rounded up and killed. Again... one of the oldest tricks of the church in the book.

morality is taught by your parents.... not by someone preaching to you about



and..... what the hell, here i though "god" loved everyone.... even the degenerates.
 
Jan 2007
7,859
523
Irrelevant
are you a puritan by any chance?

Where have you been? The church does not keep anyone in line.... hell they cant even keep their own in line. ie... not raping.

The church.. and that is any church... runs one of the oldest doges of all time. Hiding behind the cloth, virtue signalling behind the "word of god"

The only way the chruch can keep anyone in line is with fear. Fear that if they dont do exactaly what they are being told they will be rounded up and killed. Again... one of the oldest tricks of the church in the book.

morality is taught by your parents.... not by someone preaching to you about



and..... what the hell, here i though "god" loved everyone.... even the degenerates.
In all forms of human political association -- from primitive, slave, feudal, capitalist, socialist, fascist, monarchical, etc. -- not one was able to perpetuate itself by violence. You might want to re-evaluate your opinion on this one.
 
Jan 2007
7,859
523
Irrelevant
Obviously church and state are good tools for curbing many of the degenerates, but at the same time, in some cases, are churches really just means of keeping in line those who are too weak to control their impulses, such as not raping and murdering, of their own accord?

(Even in world religions, including the Bible, it expects people to be above and beyond this, if people actually read the lifestyles that people, such as Jesus and Paul were advocating however in practice, it seems like a lot of people lack any will or self discipline of their own, and might be rapists, murderers, or otherwise if they weren't "told" not to do it).

It seems in many cases, churches are just about curbing immorality in the masses rather than cultivating virtue and morality - much as the state is.
The only power the church has over an individual is what that individual's conscience consents to in the first place. Unlike the state, the church cannot fine, incarcerate or execute anyone...well at least right now.
 
Sep 2019
162
11
Evolution's bosom
are you a puritan by any chance?

Where have you been? The church does not keep anyone in line.... hell they cant even keep their own in line. ie... not raping.

The church.. and that is any church... runs one of the oldest doges of all time. Hiding behind the cloth, virtue signalling behind the "word of god"

The only way the chruch can keep anyone in line is with fear. Fear that if they dont do exactaly what they are being told they will be rounded up and killed. Again... one of the oldest tricks of the church in the book.

morality is taught by your parents.... not by someone preaching to you about



and..... what the hell, here i though "god" loved everyone.... even the degenerates.
As mentioned, morality isn't solely the product of parenting, other than maybe for someone stuck in arrested development who never emotionally matured past 5 years old - mature individuals develop their morality as they age, likewise people in "bad" moral environments have matured above and beyond it, or attempted to change it. Obviously, morality isn't solely taught, but is a product of human creativity, which is why cultures which once accepted slavery later came up with the idea of abolishing it; had it solely been "taught", then there would have been no moral evolution past the days in which women were stoned to death for adultery and so forth, so this is historically and scientfically, false, and only a person of very low IQ, or one who is outright lying to themselves could pretend to believe it.

Morality has biological roots, as is scientifically documented, with human morality likely evolving out of "premoral sentiments" seen in animals - such as in ant colonies, in which population control is enacted on worker ants. There are also, of course common moral themes across civilized cultures regardless of whether or not "the Bible" is brought into it, such as not raping or murdering people.

If you believe they are solely "taught", then you obviously need to be in church, because you apparently need someone "telling you" not to rape or murder, or else you wouldn't be able to control your own impulses, like a mature adult would.
 
Feb 2015
17,125
8,768
sadness
In all forms of human political association -- from primitive, slave, feudal, capitalist, socialist, fascist, monarchical, etc. -- not one was able to perpetuate itself by violence. You might want to re-evaluate your opinion on this one.

i did not say... violence.

I said fear.... of which is more powerful.
 
Feb 2015
17,125
8,768
sadness
As mentioned, morality isn't solely the product of parenting, other than maybe for someone stuck in arrested development who never emotionally matured past 5 years old - mature individuals develop their morality as they age, likewise people in "bad" moral environments have matured above and beyond it, or attempted to change it. Obviously, morality isn't solely taught, but is a product of human creativity, which is why cultures which once accepted slavery later came up with the idea of abolishing it; had it solely been "taught", then there would have been no moral evolution past the days in which women were stoned to death for adultery and so forth, so this is historically and scientfically, false, and only a person of very low IQ, or one who is outright lying to themselves could pretend to believe it.

Morality has biological roots, as is scientifically documented, with human morality likely evolving out of "premoral sentiments" seen in animals - such as in ant colonies, in which population control is enacted on worker ants. There are also, of course common moral themes across civilized cultures regardless of whether or not "the Bible" is brought into it, such as not raping or murdering people.

If you believe they are solely "taught", then you obviously need to be in church, because you apparently need someone "telling you" not to rape or murder, or else you wouldn't be able to control your own impulses, like a mature adult would.
i would appear as if i can control my impulse much better then some in the church.

as for ants... social control is achieved by chemical cues. Brush up will ya. They do not behave by going to church.

LOL... and in your argument.... you agree with me. NO church is needed

There are also, of course common moral themes across civilized cultures regardless of whether or not "the Bible" is brought into it, such as not raping or murdering people.