Are you a moderate?

BDBoop

Former Staff
Dec 2010
46,652
43,396
Twitter
It’s strange that as a Democrat, I’m apparently not exactly who I know myself to be. A couple of posts were totally “Wait. What?!”

I need more info. How am I elite?
 
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Likes: 1 person
Apr 2012
58,450
43,288
Englewood,Ohio
What Trump offered was a mythical golden age, and a supposed magic wand that would take America back to that imaginary land.
But those who lost their jobs did not see Trump that way. He said what they wanted to hear. Things they have been saying for 40 years now! Over and over. His fowl mouth was what they have been saying privately.


We will never get them to vote Democratic again unless we have a plan, a really good one they will listen to.

Trump said out loud the same thing those people have been saying for 40 years now. And, the more you blame them,the more they will back Trump. This is the reality we are dealing with.

I know some of you think this is critisizing my fellow Dems. It is not!
 
Likes: 1 person
Apr 2012
58,450
43,288
Englewood,Ohio
NAFTA went into effect on January 1, 1994. Here is a link to the unemployment rate in America, year by year:

US Unemployment Rate by Year

Here is what happened to the unemployment rate in America for the rest of the 1990's, after NAFTA went into effect:

1993: 7.30%
1994: 6.60%
1995: 5.60%
1996: 5.60%
1997: 5.30%
1998: 4.60%
1999: 4.30%
2000: 4.00%

In 2000, we had several months of 3.9% unemployment. More to the point, the unemployment rate fell, and fell, and fell, and fell, and fell, and fell, for six years after NAFTA was ratified. Some people seem to have forgotten that the American economy was BOOMING in the 1990's. Clintonomics. Most people have FOND memories of that era, because real wages were rising pretty smartly during that decade, especially in the second half of the decade. It explains why Bill Clinton left office as a VERY popular President, despite the Monica Lewinsky scandal, despite impeachment.

The BIG LOSS of manufacturing jobs in America did not happen until the Presidency of George W. Bush, under whom America lost more than 27% of our manufacturing jobs.

Don't fall for revisionist Republican economic history, MaryAnne. It seems as though you are beginning to.
LeRoy, you are posting facts! These people who believed Trump do not believe what you posted.

I understand that.I know that People always have more prosperity when Democrats are in. Those who voted for Trump believed every word he said, and you are not going to change their mind. We have to start working for that.

You are taking this personally. It is not about you or me. It is about getting those voters back. I am hoping enough see what Trump is, but I prefer to bring the Democrats back.
 
Apr 2012
58,450
43,288
Englewood,Ohio
It’s strange that as a Democrat, I’m apparently not exactly who I know myself to bo. A couple of posts were totally “Wait. What?!”

I need more info. How am I elite?
BD, no one said you were. But if you read the thread you will see what I am posting about.
 
Jan 2016
51,730
47,951
Colorado
LeRoy, you are posting facts! These people who believed Trump do not believe what you posted.

I understand that.I know that People always have more prosperity when Democrats are in. Those who voted for Trump believed every word he said, and you are not going to change their mind. We have to start working for that.

You are taking this personally. It is not about you or me. It is about getting those voters back. I am hoping enough see what Trump is, but I prefer to bring the Democrats back.
I've already agree that Trump was telling those voters what they wanted to hear. What are you suggesting, that the Democrats should start plying those voters with falsehoods, too? NO. I am a man of principle. I would rather tell the voters the truth, and lose elections, than tell them lies, and win elections. That would make me a Republican.
 
Likes: 1 person
Jan 2014
16,291
6,211
south
Maybe this article will help. This means to go back to what we used to be. Starting with Clinton we swung right.

Democrats Must Reclaim the Center … by Moving Hard Left
it is difficult for many to understand your point. they were not directly affected by the loss of jobs and living standards suffered in the "rust belt". guess I'm lucky - I do understand. quoting facts and figures does not put food on the table. the citizens affected don't care about that. if a person is drowning, they will latch onto anything they can (including a shark) to attempt to save themselves. and, it goes deeper than just that. these citizens are suffering a loss of their dignity and self reliance. I'm not surprised they picked Trump. they have, in a way, been taken advantage of by the business owners and the democrats. they're position is "what have I got to loose".
 
Likes: Wonderer
Jun 2013
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Here
it is difficult for many to understand your point. they were not directly affected by the loss of jobs and living standards suffered in the "rust belt". guess I'm lucky - I do understand. quoting facts and figures does not put food on the table. the citizens affected don't care about that. if a person is drowning, they will latch onto anything they can (including a shark) to attempt to save themselves. and, it goes deeper than just that. these citizens are suffering a loss of their dignity and self reliance. I'm not surprised they picked Trump. they have, in a way, been taken advantage of by the business owners and the democrats. they're position is "what have I got to loose".
The problem with your premise is that no one drowning is going to reach out for a shark, number one (even in an exaggerated analogy). Any thoughtful person of moderate intelligence should be able to piece together simple observance that the features (not the political labels) they dislike, are no different or no more attractive simply because another person or person of another label, possesses them. If one hates lying and elites, WHY would one vote for a lying elite? It's as simple as that.

What happened to the ability of Americans for basic observance? I grew up in a Republican family, had/have tons of Republican friends and was a Republican myself, but that was before the neo or "new" republicans moved in and usurped the party and demonstrated some of the worst features of humanity as planks in their platform. When anyone. I don't care what their party is or the label on their hat or T shirt says, needs to cheat and lie to get ahead, THAT, not the labels, NOT the political party affiliation is the thing, not just me, but many Republican friends and family noticed in enough people of what was a different (in terms of philosophy and action) political party than what it was transforming into and has become.

I have always voted candidate throughout my life, even when I considered myself a Republican. Now, I am an Independent, but because the shift in general ideology of the neo republican party has been so much toward the right, I sit in what was considered at one time, mainstream Republican territory that has since slid into solid Democratic territory, because of slide to the right. I really don't care about political labels as much as what the bulk of any party stands for at any one time and what individuals within that bulwark stand for, on their own. I find one has to apply some generalization, but apply it with some discrimination as well as "all" people of any one grouping are not identically the same and within any grouping there are hardline extremists in the direction of the polar tip of any shared ideology and there are those that tiptoe the border between what separates them from the "opposition". At any one time though, the bulk of the weight of any group can fall anywhere between the extreme edge and the middle border dividing line that separates them from the opposition.

Currently, I and many others, including my formerly Republican friends and family, see the bulk of neo republican party as having moved toward the extreme right end/edge of the political spectrum pole. The mystifying thing is how utterly partisan some, especially on the right, have become. They complain about features and characteristics of "the left" and reject them, while at the same time, electing candidates that have the same features and characteristics and in many cases, more terrible versions of them. For example; Trump pledged to "drain the swamp" in Washington of millionaire elitist professional politicians, yet look at what he has filled his cabinet with, look at his own bragging about his own elite status? THAT, does not make sense, but to say under certain conditions and aiming propaganda at a certain profile of people, reality can in fact, be twisted as his has in the past and people led, by promises that are in a way, greedy to their own special interests, (nationalism/false senses of patriotism) and "trained/taught" by bombardments of simple slogans and memes to find blame where it does not really lie and to in many ways, be MORE, not less selfish and be LESS, not more, humane and considerate of one's fellow human beings. The world has witnessed the tragedies of where such things led and how massive numbers of people were led, because of hard times (in many cases out of anyone's control) to as you have said, grasp on to what someone is telling them are easy solutions, which often involve finding scapegoats to blame, unity through nationalism and suggestions of "sense of duty" (false senses of patriotism or patriotism by causing guilt feelings if one does not wave flags and salute or otherwise go through the less important motions of appearing to be "patriotic").

The Great Recession, set up many of the same conditions for many people, not the majority, to be led in the same sorts of directions and trained/taught to believe that the opposition party, in spite of the remarkable economic recovery made (that was also in spite of all the "stifling" regulations and taxes, people were taught/led to believe was happening, even as the economy was recovering, in spite of them. Con artistry works, because it appeals to a sense that someone acting friendly is going to do something great for those taken in by the con artistry. Sadly, greed and selfishness, inherent in us all, but stronger in some than others, is a large factor in how con artists are so successful. They act friendly, gain trust, then get their victims (marks) to hand over, if not their life savings, their power, all because those handing over those things are led to believe those they hand them over to, are going to get something greater in return. When they then find out they have been ripped off, the don't want to talk about it, because they feel like fools.

I have been with friends when young, who were talked into buying all kinds of books about a "cause" we were all asked to give some time to hear about. When someone tries to hard sell me, I get turned off, even if I might really want what they are trying to sell me. Immediately I start thinking about what the angle is and what's either wrong with the product or the terms of the sale. I try to look around the curtain, as in the famous "Wizard of Oz" scene where Toto reveals the man behind the controls of the "Great and Powerful Oz" and I often find something that is not revealed in the sales job, sometimes something that was truly deceitful, sometimes not so, but the point is, that a level of skepticism prevented being ripped off by people who were perfectly friendly, but a bit too (and suspiciously) pushy when it came to trying to close a sale

I'm not sure what it is, but perhaps it is our living in a consumer oriented society and one where greed seems to be okay for a lot of people, at least from their side of the coin, but not when others are greedy. People appear to have lost the capacity of what I had believed was innate. That is, to be observant and connect dots in a very basic way. I see more and more people crossing the road without so much as a look up from their "devices" to see if the coast is clear. I see people walking four or five abreast on a busy road or on a sidewalk totally clueless as to anyone else in the world, that is sharing the same road or sidewalk. I have seem many of the same people that do such things be among the first to complain when others do the same to them. Where did this disconnect between what others do and what we do, come from? I don't know other than to think something led us to become a very selfish society and that is being amplified by people like our current POTUS, rather than a feeling of being considerate about and toward, one's fellow human beings.

It's sad and I see no end to it until many people sit down and take the same stock of themselves that they constantly take of others and see if they meet the same criteria they expect others to meet or even more simply, try to get into the habit of thinking of other people aside from or in addition to themselves. Practice seeing things not only from their own perspective, but from others as well, based in the thought of putting themselves in the place of another and looking at themselves or simply doing unto others, the same things they want others to do undo them and NOT doing unto others, the things they DON'T want others to do, unto them.

The other side of it is choosing a free for all, where any reality, any subjective truth goes and either live with it without complaint or simply tolerate the absurd world of whining and complaining by people who complain that someone else, did to them, the same things they do to others.
 

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