Atlantis and ancient Rus...

The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
41,462
27,606
Toronto
#1
Just an interesting thought... In ancient Rus (ancestors of Russians, Ukrainians, and Belarusians) mythology, there is a story about a magical island, called Buyan (today, there is an actual, real life island also named Buyan, but it was simply named in honor of the mythological island and has nothing to do with this story, that I am aware of)


Among other stories about this island, is that a magic oak tree grows there, which holds the secret to defeating Koschei the (otherwise) Immortal, the mightiest, scariest villain of ancient Rus folklore


In the tale, Prince Ivan travels to Buyan and finds this oak

It would transport him, essentially, to another dimension, where he'd find a hare, and a duck, who'd have a magic egg, which would, finally, reveal how to kill Koschei. Ivan would then be able to destroy the evil SOB and save his girlfriend, the beautiful princess Vasilisa

Then, they'd get married and rule and live together happily ever after lol

Similarly, vast majority of old Rus fairy tales seem to involve or even center around Buyan.

And even in modern times, in "Tanya Grotter" (Russian answer to/rip-off of "Harry Potter" by a guy named Dmitry Yemets; only with a redhead girl protagonist instead of boy, magic rings instead of wands; and they fly around on vacuums instead of brooms lmao) their magic school, Tibidokhs, is located on Buyan


But, the most curious of the ancient stories, to me, is the "Tale of the Tsar Saltan", who ruled Buyan itself, and, in the tale, if an enemy threatened, called upon supernatural help, in the form of 33 giant, super-powerful warriors, led by a older bearded guy named Chernomor, who'd emerged from the sea and help Saltan and his people fight the attackers

(In aforementioned "Tanya Grotter", btw, these guys also provide security at the magic school haha Yemets basically took out all the Western monsters from Potter and replaced with stuff from Russian/Slavic folklore :D)

It all makes me wonder... "Chernomor", refers to the Black Sea, Chernoe More, meaning the mythical island would have been located around there.

Now, Black Sea used to be, in ancient times, pretty much dominated by the Greeks. Crimea, for example, has ancient Greek ruins in places like Khersones (now a major pilgrimage spot for Russian Orthodox Christians, because the Greeks also baptize the first Orthodox Tsar, Vladimir I, there, 1000 years ago; and they believe the waters there are holy)


Could it be that this island Buyan, which reportedly could appear and disappear by itself too... was, in fact... Atlantis? :D

Just saying lol I get that this is mythology and not actual history I am bringing up here. But most myths are also based on something, you know...
 

Djinn

Council Hall
Dec 2007
48,203
34,010
Pennsylvania, USA
#2
Plato's references to "Atlantis" were an allegory; nothing more. Consider that for such a nation / island / continent / culture to exist and thrive, they would have to engage in trade with other countries. And yet - in all the surviving trade records of all the ancient merchants (and there are a LOT of these records), there is no mention of trade with "Atlantis" or anything like it.
 
Jan 2016
39,596
35,398
Colorado
#3
They fly around on vacuums?!?? LOLOL!!

That's an hilarious mental image, I've got to tell you! Maybe with the power cord dangling in the air behind them as they fly through the sky?

If you go back far enough in time, to before roughly 5400 BC, the Black Sea was not a sea at all, as it was not connected to the Mediterranean. It was a fresh-water lake, roughly two-thirds of the size it is now. Melting ice-sheets around the world, particularly the collapse of the Fenno-Scandian ice-sheet in the 8th and 7th millenniums BC, had been causing sea levels to rise, and the Mediterranean finally burst through the Dardanelles and the Bosporus, causing what would have been an amazing waterfall to see, quite a flood, and a dramatic ecological catastrophe for all the organisms which had been living in the freshwater lake. This geological event may have also been the source of all the legends about Noah's flood, as it would have forced all the early farming groups who had been living on the shores of the Black Sea to flee. And to carry those memories with them, in all directions.

I suppose it is remotely possible that there could have been an island in the middle of this freshwater lake that existed prior to this event.....but I don't think the geology actually favors that, The Man.

I think we must look elsewhere for the origins of the Atlantis legend.
 
Jan 2016
39,596
35,398
Colorado
#4
Plato's references to "Atlantis" were an allegory; nothing more. Consider that for such a nation / island / continent / culture to exist and thrive, they would have to engage in trade with other countries. And yet - in all the surviving trade records of all the ancient merchants (and there are a LOT of these records), there is no mention of trade with "Atlantis" or anything like it.
Some people think Plato's tale of Atlantis might be a garbled story of the fall of the Minoan Civilization, which certainly did exist on the island of Crete, more than a thousand years before Plato wrote, and was destroyed by the massive Thera eruption and subsequent tsunamis, which bounced around the Aegean like a pinball.

Others think it might refer to an almost equally ancient culture which existed in the south of Spain and which also met with destruction. Both of those civilizations were highly mercantile civilizations.

There are pros and cons to both arguments. Then again, you might be right that it is nothing more than an allegory. But I rather think it, like Homer's tale of the Trojan War, is a bit of garbled history.
 

The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
41,462
27,606
Toronto
#5
Plato's references to "Atlantis" were an allegory; nothing more. Consider that for such a nation / island / continent / culture to exist and thrive, they would have to engage in trade with other countries. And yet - in all the surviving trade records of all the ancient merchants (and there are a LOT of these records), there is no mention of trade with "Atlantis" or anything like it.
This guy talked about Atlantis too, on an episode of his show

He thinks they were either aliens themselves or humans who were given all kinds of alien technology.

If you can't trust a dude with hair like that, who the heck DO you trust??? ;D

They fly around on vacuums?!?? LOLOL!!

That's an hilarious mental image, I've got to tell you! Maybe with the power cord dangling in the air behind them as they fly through the sky?
Hell, yeah! Except Tanya herself, she flies on her big bass cello instead


And instead of Quiddich (which is not nearly scary enough for Russian kids lol) they play Drakoball, where, as the name suggests, you need to score the ball... into the mouth of a God damn dragon; and Tanya, of course, is a champ in this thing

:D

I am sure the vacuums must be quite noisy... I'd take a broom myself, if had to choose lol No cords though, these are MAGIC vacuums, remember ;)

I tell ya... That Yemets fellow has no shame, at all. In one book, I recall, he has a delegation from a rival, British magic school visiting Tibidokhs, including three kids who closely resemble Harry Potter and his friends Ron and Hermione; and, of course, "Harry" ends up falling madly for Tanya and starts making moves on her

Till her boyfriend beats the piss out of him, and I don't mean with magic, but with good old fists, the Russian way haha

I will say this, back then, early half of 2000s, many kids in my school in Moscow were reading HP, but most of the boys also read TG, and honestly, most of us were fantasizing about her; because, those covers I posted above, that's from a new, more recent re-issue; the original ones, that we read back then, man, she was HOT on them


:D It's like Mr. Yemets knew exactly what teen boys with hormones wanted haha

If you go back far enough in time, to before roughly 5400 BC, the Black Sea was not a sea at all, as it was not connected to the Mediterranean. It was a fresh-water lake, roughly two-thirds of the size it is now. Melting ice-sheets around the world, particularly the collapse of the Fenno-Scandian ice-sheet in the 8th and 7th millenniums BC, had been causing sea levels to rise, and the Mediterranean finally burst through the Dardanelles and the Bosporus, causing what would have been an amazing waterfall to see, quite a flood, and a dramatic ecological catastrophe for all the organisms which had been living in the freshwater lake. This geological event may have also been the source of all the legends about Noah's flood, as it would have forced all the early farming groups who had been living on the shores of the Black Sea to flee. And to carry those memories with them, in all directions.

I suppose it is remotely possible that there could have been an island in the middle of this freshwater lake that existed prior to this event.....but I don't think the geology actually favors that, The Man.

I think we must look elsewhere for the origins of the Atlantis legend.
I suppose that's true.

There are lots of such unexplained mysteries in the history of our world though... In South America, there's Eldorado, the city of gold


Etc... It all very much fascinates me.
 
Likes: Ian Jeffrey
Aug 2018
635
1,010
Vancouver
#6
There’s an old theory that what the ancients called Atlantis was actually Newfoundland in then-unknown North America.

No, I totally just made that up right now.

Someday I want to come up with something like that and put it all over the internet and see how far it can go.

I think it’s tragic that Hollywood hasnt picked up on this villain Koschei. He seems hard core.
 
Last edited:

The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
41,462
27,606
Toronto
#7
There’s an old theory that what the ancients called Atlantis was actually Newfoundland in then-unknown North America.

No, I totally just made that up right now.

Someday I want to come up with something like that and put it all over the internet and see how far it can go.

I think it’s tragic that Hollywood hasnt picked up on this villain Koschei. He seems hard core.
Konstantin Lavrnonenko played a pretty badass Koschei in a Russian fantasy flick "Last Warrior" last year

:D

As for Newfoundland, it seems like a beautiful place

I totally want to visit...

Hell, maybe we'll eventually retire over there, imagine, living HERE
 
Oct 2014
25,504
3,998
C-A-N-A-D-A-Eh
#8
As I understand it, there are 3 main theories on the location of Atlantis...

Mainly people focus somewhere between Europe and America. Some have even proposed that some sites that have been flooded over monuments could have been part.

Another segment believe Atlantis to be on Antarctica somewhere...

I find this spot compelling:
IMG_0220.jpg

Wider view:
IMG_0221.jpg
 

The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
41,462
27,606
Toronto
#9
As I understand it, there are 3 main theories on the location of Atlantis...

Mainly people focus somewhere between Europe and America. Some have even proposed that some sites that have been flooded over monuments could have been part.

Another segment believe Atlantis to be on Antarctica somewhere...

I find this spot compelling:
View attachment 18063

Wider view:
View attachment 18064
I always assumed that it would be somewhere near what used to be the ancient Greek sphere of influence. After all, Atlantis does seem to originate from ancient Greece... West Africa seems to be way too far. I'd understand Egypt, at least, with Alexandria and all...
 
Sep 2012
13,430
16,765
SoCal
#10
They fly around on vacuums?!?? LOLOL!!

That's an hilarious mental image, I've got to tell you! Maybe with the power cord dangling in the air behind them as they fly through the sky?

If you go back far enough in time, to before roughly 5400 BC, the Black Sea was not a sea at all, as it was not connected to the Mediterranean. It was a fresh-water lake, roughly two-thirds of the size it is now. Melting ice-sheets around the world, particularly the collapse of the Fenno-Scandian ice-sheet in the 8th and 7th millenniums BC, had been causing sea levels to rise, and the Mediterranean finally burst through the Dardanelles and the Bosporus, causing what would have been an amazing waterfall to see, quite a flood, and a dramatic ecological catastrophe for all the organisms which had been living in the freshwater lake. This geological event may have also been the source of all the legends about Noah's flood, as it would have forced all the early farming groups who had been living on the shores of the Black Sea to flee. And to carry those memories with them, in all directions.

I suppose it is remotely possible that there could have been an island in the middle of this freshwater lake that existed prior to this event.....but I don't think the geology actually favors that, The Man.

I think we must look elsewhere for the origins of the Atlantis legend.
You do know, there are cordless vacuums now ...

 
Likes: The Man

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