Because of Anti-Vaxxers, 37 People in Europe Have Died of Measles This Year

Oct 2014
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They are effective enough to eradicate a disease. For some folks, they do not provide 100% immunity which is why some of the vaccinated people contracted the measles. Is it really worth the risk to you? Seriously. Why step backwards when forward makes the most sense? Our healthcare system is stretched enough with preventable stupidity, why add more.
It's funny when you dig into some of these "outbreaks" (not specifically this recent one), where the actual outbreak ONLY impacted vaccinated individuals...

Or cases where the vaccine gives the disease.
 

HCProf

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I am opposed to forced vaccinations. That is all. I thought we were in agreement on this.
We are...we cannot hold a person down and stick a needle in them...but we can restrict them to protect the greater good in society. This is how a society functions. I would never send a child of mine to school with a bunch of unvaccinated kids...which is where this is heading. If they want to have measles parties and celebrate disease, allow them to do that with other unvaccinated kids. I won't even take my dogs to a dog park because of the possibility they may catch something from other dogs who are not vaccinated or have parasites because owners don't worm them.
 
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We are...we cannot hold a person down and stick a needle in them...
Agreed. Some in this thread appear to think differently.
.but we can restrict them to protect the greater good in society.
How so? I can understand not allowing children into public schools without proof of vaccination, but how do you police, say, a mall or a concert? Everyone must show their papers at the door?
 

HCProf

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Agreed. Some in this thread appear to think differently.

How so? I can understand not allowing children into schools without proof of vaccination, but how do you police, say, a mall or a concert? Everyone must show their papers at the door?
That very well could happen if we start seeing extreme outbreaks from eradicated diseases or people will stop going out in public and cripple the economy. That would get someones attention. Years ago, I managed a International Travel Clinic. My first job after graduating Nursing school. It was a outpatient walk in clinic but had other sources of revenue...executive physicals and travel medicine was part of it. At the time, many executives were beginning to travel internationally and we had huge corporations as accounts. You need to "show your papers" or proof of vaccination to leave and enter the Country. I remember giving Yellow Fever vaccines to business travelers going to parts of South and Central America. If the traveler did not have proof of the Yellow Fever vaccine, they were not allowed to re-enter the Country. We have always had vaccine documentation for other things.

I personally do not want to see a society where we have to prove we are medically safe...that is why I support vaccines to preserve the freedoms that we do have.
 
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I personally do not want to see a society where we have to prove we are medically safe...that is why I support vaccines to preserve the freedoms that we do have.
Up to the point of forced injections. We agree on that. I have no problem with barring unsafe people from entering the country. That's just another reason to secure our borders.
 

HCProf

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Up to the point of forced injections. We agree on that. I have no problem with barring unsafe people from entering the country. That's just another reason to secure our borders.
I think we need to evaluate vaccines at the border. It is not a far stretch to assume that asylum seekers are not vaccinated because of the environment they come from. Mexico could have a potential problem if they do not start vaccinating the people who are waiting there for entry. People who live in close quarters such as tent cities have a high risk of contracting TB. Believe it or not, some hospitals in the US have whole wings dedicated to TB currently. The patients are often homeless or come from communal environments like nursing homes, group homes, etc. We have a hospital locally that is considered a "TB hospital" and the beds are full all the time.

The outbreak of measles in California a few years back at Disney World. The ground zero patient was a child from France. Normally, we do not require proof of immunizations from Europe...but since they are on the anti vaxxer band wagon...that may change as well.
 
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I think we need to evaluate vaccines at the border. It is not a far stretch to assume that asylum seekers are not vaccinated because of the environment they come from. Mexico could have a potential problem if they do not start vaccinating the people who are waiting there for entry. People who live in close quarters such as tent cities have a high risk of contracting TB. Believe it or not, some hospitals in the US have whole wings dedicated to TB currently. The patients are often homeless or come from communal environments like nursing homes, group homes, etc. We have a hospital locally that is considered a "TB hospital" and the beds are full all the time.

The outbreak of measles in California a few years back at Disney World. The ground zero patient was a child from France. Normally, we do not require proof of immunizations from Europe...but since they are on the anti vaxxer band wagon...that may change as well.
I'm certainly not on the anti-vaxxer bandwagon. I'm just on the anti-forced-injection bandwagon. Vaccines, while not entirely problem free, have done far more good than harm, imho.
 
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We are...we cannot hold a person down and stick a needle in them...but we can restrict them to protect the greater good in society. This is how a society functions. I would never send a child of mine to school with a bunch of unvaccinated kids...which is where this is heading. If they want to have measles parties and celebrate disease, allow them to do that with other unvaccinated kids. I won't even take my dogs to a dog park because of the possibility they may catch something from other dogs who are not vaccinated or have parasites because owners don't worm them.
When you have a child that has a medical reason to not vaccinate, they are typically allowed to go to public schools. On the other hand, if a child is not vaccinated because the parents just don't want to, that child is typically excluded from public schools (in California). So most kids in California are immunized. However, I think aside from the flu shot, most adults could be considered unvaccinated. The vaccinations you received as a child are dissipated by the time you are 30. There is not a big peer pressure thing among adults to get booster shots.
 
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Your understanding of concepts is the problem.

If you are wearing a vest is to protect you from being shot... my wearing a vest has no bearing on you getting shot. It doesn't change whether the shooter is wearing a vest or not.

The issue is that either you are protected or you are not.

Your argument requires that you are not protected by vaccines.

Which is so fucking stupid that I can't help but shake my head.

"Vaccines work, but you have to take one or mine doesn't work" Or your equally moronic car analogy... the brakes on your car have NO IMPACT on the brakes of mine.
A car with no brakes can have an impact on yours, whether or not yours has brakes.

Now, you see, not everyone can take the vaccine. Some people are allergic to it. It doesn't work for a small percentage of the population. However, if enough people are vaccinated, then the disease doesn't have enough hosts to spread from person to person. That's why as many people as possible should be vaccinated.

Actually, I agree that the government shouldn't have the right to inject substances into people's bodies by force. However, people who could take the vaccine, yet decide not to, need to be held responsible for infecting others. Further, people who spread false stories about vaccines causing autism should also be held accountable for the people who get sick and the people who die when they believe those false rumors.
 
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A car with no brakes can have an impact on yours, whether or not yours has brakes.

Now, you see, not everyone can take the vaccine. Some people are allergic to it. It doesn't work for a small percentage of the population. However, if enough people are vaccinated, then the disease doesn't have enough hosts to spread from person to person. That's why as many people as possible should be vaccinated.

Actually, I agree that the government shouldn't have the right to inject substances into people's bodies by force. However, people who could take the vaccine, yet decide not to, need to be held responsible for infecting others. Further, people who spread false stories about vaccines causing autism should also be held accountable for the people who get sick and the people who die when they believe those false rumors.
Ok... Bottom line... When a culture stops shitting in the streets, when they increase hygienic practices, drink clean water and eat clean food, there's a lot less room for disease to spread.

Vaccines are to protect the person, your telling me that if I don't get a vaccine is going to make yours less effective only means you don't trust that they work.

Safe and effective gets parroted constantly, but their safety is statistical, and the effectiveness will vary.

That's why it's a cost benefit thing. Like the odds of a 6 month old being exposed to hepatitis is extremely rare. Things like chicken pox create the vaccine when you get it and is, unless you get as an adult, almost always just a week of discomfort. However, if you're going to a different country, not usually a bad idea to at least consider the vaccines that may be relevant.

Of course, the companies make less money if people aren't taking them, or really weighing the risks... That's why doctors try to avoid providing the drug inserts.