Chechnya, Ingushetia exchange border lands

The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
45,270
31,918
Toronto
#14
The speaker of the parliament of Russia's North Caucasus region of Chechnya says the disputed Chechen-Ingush administrative boundary agreement has come into force amid continuing protests in Ingushetia against the deal.

Magomed Daudov wrote on the VKontakte social network that the agreement had come into force as of October 16, calling it "historic."

Meanwhile, in Ingushetia's capital, Magas, the mass protest that started on October 4 against the agreement continues.

The demonstrators said they had elected eight delegates who are scheduled to hold talks regarding the issue with the presidential envoy in the North Caucasus, Aleksandr Matovnikov, in the city of Pyatigorsk, later on October 16.

The protesters say the agreement on the administrative boundary signed on September 26 behind closed doors by the leaders of Chechnya and Ingushetia, Ramzan Kadyrov and Yunus-Bek Yevkurov, unfairly hands parts of Ingushetia to Chechnya.

They have called for Yevkurov's resignation and a referendum on the agreement, which officials announced was approved by the parliaments of both regions several days later.

Ingush lawmakers said later, in the wake of the protests, that they had not approved the deal.
Chechen-Ingush Border Agreement 'Comes Into Force' Amid Protests
 
Dec 2014
13,680
11,287
NWOHQ
#16

Unfortunately my friend, the dissolution of large empires can take decades to resolve. We are still feeling the effects of the breakup of the Ottoman empire if you really think about it, and that's almost a century ago.
 
Likes: The Man

The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
45,270
31,918
Toronto
#17
Unfortunately my friend, the dissolution of large empires can take decades to resolve. We are still feeling the effects of the breakup of the Ottoman empire if you really think about it, and that's almost a century ago.
It's not about empires, really. In many ways, it is about the psychology of people in the Caucasus.

Those Ingush are not just upset about losing territory, although that is a big part of it, that last link mentions that Ingushetia stands to give up dozen times more area to the Chechens than they get back here; and they'd already, back in the 90s, lost a serious chunk of their domain to another neighbor, Ossetia, on the other side: East Prigorodny Conflict - Wikipedia

But, it's more than that. All the Caucasians are highly attached to their land. Most live and die in their ancestral villages and towns, and are then buried in the same clan cemetery with their parents, grandparents, etc. In fact, majority, especially rural ones, still live in houses built by their ancestors three, four, five generations ago. It is unthinkable for them to have to abandon their home territory. A great violation. It is why Stalin's forced relocations of Ingush, Chechens, and others from Caucasus to Central Asia during his reign were so traumatic for people there.

That's a big part of this issue, they do not want to relocate, the residents of the areas being transferred to Chechnya. And, they don't want to live under Kadyrov's rule wither, which I cannot blame them for, honestly... They want Putin personally to stop this transfer. But he, so far, at least, doesn't seem to give a shit... He always has allowed Kadyrov to do whatever he wants, before. I've said that this is gonna backfire at some point. Caucasians are proud warrior people. Kadyrov may think his Chechens are number one, but the others around them are just as tough. Putin's lapdog was gonna begin to get pushback at some point, and it's starting now. I just hope blood won't flow from this...
 
Dec 2014
13,680
11,287
NWOHQ
#18
It's not about empires, really. In many ways, it is about the psychology of people in the Caucasus.

Those Ingush are not just upset about losing territory, although that is a big part of it, that last link mentions that Ingushetia stands to give up dozen times more area to the Chechens than they get back here; and they'd already, back in the 90s, lost a serious chunk of their domain to another neighbor, Ossetia, on the other side: East Prigorodny Conflict - Wikipedia

But, it's more than that. All the Caucasians are highly attached to their land. Most live and die in their ancestral villages and towns, and are then buried in the same clan cemetery with their parents, grandparents, etc. In fact, majority, especially rural ones, still live in houses built by their ancestors three, four, five generations ago. It is unthinkable for them to have to abandon their home territory. A great violation. It is why Stalin's forced relocations of Ingush, Chechens, and others from Caucasus to Central Asia during his reign were so traumatic for people there.

That's a big part of this issue, they do not want to relocate, the residents of the areas being transferred to Chechnya. And, they don't want to live under Kadyrov's rule wither, which I cannot blame them for, honestly... They want Putin personally to stop this transfer. But he, so far, at least, doesn't seem to give a shit... He always has allowed Kadyrov to do whatever he wants, before. I've said that this is gonna backfire at some point. Caucasians are proud warrior people. Kadyrov may think his Chechens are number one, but the others around them are just as tough. Putin's lapdog was gonna begin to get pushback at some point, and it's starting now. I just hope blood won't flow from this...

Yes, but the empire kept these sentiments in check. When they fall apart, chaos reigns and that was my point really.
 
Likes: The Man

The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
45,270
31,918
Toronto
#19
Yes, but the empire kept these sentiments in check. When they fall apart, chaos reigns and that was my point really.
Modern Russia is still very much an empire, however. Most money and resources floow out of the provinces to Moscow, to the small neo-aristocratic elite around the Kremlin. The country is also subdivided into Federal Districts, each containing a number of geographically and culturally linked regions, and overseen by one of Putin's Presidential Envoys, in the case of Northern Caucasus - ex-Special Forces general Alexander Matovnikov

They are like Royal Viceroys, with the power to overrule, and even depose regional Governors.

It is a very rigid hierarchical system, actually...
 
Likes: Blues63

The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
45,270
31,918
Toronto
#20
MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian authorities ordered two mobile operators to cut most access to mobile data services in the region of Ingushetia as protesters were massing outside government offices there, according to a document from the state telecoms regulator.

The Ingushetia case, the first time such an order has been documented in Russia, indicates Russia is restricting access to social media platforms such as Facebook or Twitter so they cannot be used to organize anti-government protests.

The same techniques have been deployed in the Middle East where, faced with popular uprisings, governments have limited access to mobile data services, according to activists and mobile operators.

The document seen by Reuters, from the Ingushetia office of the Roskomnadzor regulator, states that 3G and 4G mobile Internet services were turned off in Ingushetia from Oct. 4 to Oct. 17 “on the basis of the justified decision of the law enforcement authorities”.

The document did not mention the protests or say on what basis the law enforcement authorities took their decision.

The Federal Security Service and the Interior Ministry did not respond to requests by Reuters for comments. A spokesman for Roskomnadzor, in response to questions, did not say why the services were switched off in Ingushetia.

Protests broke out in Ingushetia, a mainly Muslim region in southern Russia, on Oct. 4 after a deal was agreed delineating Ingushetia’s border with the neighboring Russian region of Chechnya.

The protesters said the deal conceded too much land to Chechnya, and thousands of them gathered in the region’s administrative capital, Magas, to demand it be rejected. At one point, security forces fired into the air to try to disperse the protests.

From Oct. 4, phone users across Ingushetia complained about a lack of mobile internet services, according to lawyer Khusen Daurbekov. He said he was representing some of the complainants pro bono because he wanted to force the authorities to say why they restricted the mobile network.

Daurbekov filed a complaint to the local office of Roskomnadzor against two mobile operators, Megafon and Vimpelcom. The reply, from the head of the office, Aslan Koloyev, exonerated the operators and said the switch-off was requested by law enforcement.

GLOBAL BATTLEGROUND

Koloyev declined to comment and referred questions instead to the Roskomnadzor press office. Roskomnadzor representative Vadim Ampelonsky said only that the watchdog had found no violations by the mobile operators in Ingushetia. Vimpelcom and Megafon declined to comment.

While 3G and 4G services were switched off in Ingushetia, 2G services were still available. That meant people could still make voice calls from their mobile phones. In theory they could also have mobile access to the Internet.

In practice however, that access is very limited because speeds over a 2G network are low, and become even slower if a large number of people are gathered in one place, for example at a protest, overloading the network.

Control over social media has become a battleground in the past few years between governments around the world trying to keep a lid on dissent and citizens seeking to express grievances against their rulers.

During mass protests in Egypt in 2011 against the rule of then-President Hosni Mubarak, authorities told mobile operator Vodafone to switch off its network in Egypt, the company said.

When anti-government protests broke out in Iran in December 2017, authorities in Tehran imposed restrictions on messaging service Telegram and social media platform Instagram, which had both been used to mobilize protesters.

Under Russian law, telecommunications services can be switched off on the decision of the Federal Security Service, the Interior Ministry or other law enforcement agencies.
Russia stifled mobile network during protests: document | Reuters
 

Similar Discussions