Christian support of Trump problem

Chief

Former Staff
Nov 2009
32,015
19,188
SoCal
#1
Never Trumpers like me have often wondered how Trump could have gained so much support from evangelicals and other Christian right types. Typically they will point out Trump's tax cuts, immigration stances, hardline on GLBT stuff, and of course judge picks on why they can hold their nose and vote for a known liar, cheat, and philanderer. But isn't that contrary to the important principle that the ends do not justify the means? I looked it up to see if I could find a Christian based article discussing it and came up with this one:

What Does the Bible Say About the Ends Justifying the Means

Does the Bible say that the ends justify the means? In other words, does God care about what we accomplish for him, how we accomplish it, or both? The Bible is very clear that in God’s eyes, the ends never justify sinful means.

God doesn’t just want us focusing on results, even when these goals are good. God cares how we accomplish these results. Rather than go through every bad way of doing God’s will, it is much easier to talk about the right way. The right way to accomplish a good thing is always by relying on God and his grace.
It's also false that they had a choice between Trump and Clinton so they held their nose and voted Trump. They picked Trump over Jeb Bush, Ben Carson, Chris Christie, Ted Cruz, Carly Fiorina, Jim Gilmore, Lindsey Graham, Mike Huckabee, Bobby Jindal, John Kasich, George Pataki, Rand Paul, Rick Perry, Marco Rubio, Rick Santorum, and Scott Walker. They had plenty of choices of less sinful candidates. Trump was only paired up against Clinton because they had already decided they were fine with his sinful nature.

So how can Christians decide that the ends justify the means, when that is not supported by biblical study? Isn't that Christians putting Trump ahead of their faith?
 
Nov 2008
62,193
4,783
Washington state
#2
Never Trumpers like me have often wondered how Trump could have gained so much support from evangelicals and other Christian right types. Typically they will point out Trump's tax cuts, immigration stances, hardline on GLBT stuff, and of course judge picks on why they can hold their nose and vote for a known liar, cheat, and philanderer. But isn't that contrary to the important principle that the ends do not justify the means? I looked it up to see if I could find a Christian based article discussing it and came up with this one:

What Does the Bible Say About the Ends Justifying the Means



It's also false that they had a choice between Trump and Clinton so they held their nose and voted Trump. They picked Trump over Jeb Bush, Ben Carson, Chris Christie, Ted Cruz, Carly Fiorina, Jim Gilmore, Lindsey Graham, Mike Huckabee, Bobby Jindal, John Kasich, George Pataki, Rand Paul, Rick Perry, Marco Rubio, Rick Santorum, and Scott Walker. They had plenty of choices of less sinful candidates. Trump was only paired up against Clinton because they had already decided they were fine with his sinful nature.

So how can Christians decide that the ends justify the means, when that is not supported by biblical study? Isn't that Christians putting Trump ahead of their faith?
It’s as simple as this. There has been two Conservative Christian Justices appointed to the Supreme Court in the last two years. Ginsburg is 86 and has had a recent health issue. Chances are likely she could be replaced in the next two years, making the court lean the furthest right in Decades. If Trump gets elected in 2020 ( which seems likely due a weak set of Liberal opponents) he could appoint up to two more. A conservative Court like that could stay that way for Decades and stop the Liberals agenda in its tracks. So yes Trump is not a saint, but he’s following up on his promises of having a Conservative Court


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Chief

Former Staff
Nov 2009
32,015
19,188
SoCal
#3
It’s as simple as this. There has been two Conservative Christian Justices appointed to the Supreme Court in the last two years. Ginsburg is 86 and has had a recent health issue. Chances are likely she could be replaced in the next two years, making the court lean the furthest right in Decades. If Trump gets elected in 2020 ( which seems likely due a weak set of Liberal opponents) he could appoint up to two more. A conservative Court like that could stay that way for Decades and stop the Liberals agenda in its tracks. So yes Trump is not a saint, but he’s following up on his promises of having a Conservative Court


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So to you, the ends justify the means.

That's not supported by biblical philosophy though, so how do you reconcile?
 

johnflesh

Former Staff
Feb 2007
25,332
17,760
Colorado
#4
Never Trumpers like me have often wondered how Trump could have gained so much support from evangelicals and other Christian right types. Typically they will point out Trump's tax cuts, immigration stances, hardline on GLBT stuff, and of course judge picks on why they can hold their nose and vote for a known liar, cheat, and philanderer. But isn't that contrary to the important principle that the ends do not justify the means? I looked it up to see if I could find a Christian based article discussing it and came up with this one:

What Does the Bible Say About the Ends Justifying the Means



It's also false that they had a choice between Trump and Clinton so they held their nose and voted Trump. They picked Trump over Jeb Bush, Ben Carson, Chris Christie, Ted Cruz, Carly Fiorina, Jim Gilmore, Lindsey Graham, Mike Huckabee, Bobby Jindal, John Kasich, George Pataki, Rand Paul, Rick Perry, Marco Rubio, Rick Santorum, and Scott Walker. They had plenty of choices of less sinful candidates. Trump was only paired up against Clinton because they had already decided they were fine with his sinful nature.

So how can Christians decide that the ends justify the means, when that is not supported by biblical study? Isn't that Christians putting Trump ahead of their faith?
This point has been brought up many times in the past on this board. It's a great point, but the answer to this question is: results.
And boy howdy.
 

Chief

Former Staff
Nov 2009
32,015
19,188
SoCal
#5
This point has been brought up many times in the past on this board. It's a great point, but the answer to this question is: results.
And boy howdy.
I don't disagree that Trump has provided results. But if you are a person of faith, you should be putting your faith in God, and your means should glorify God. (From my earlier link) Any one of the Republican candidates listed earlier, were they in the same time slot as Trump would have picked conservative leaning justices... so that didn't have to be Trump.
 
Nov 2008
62,193
4,783
Washington state
#6
So to you, the ends justify the means.

That's not supported by biblical philosophy though, so how do you reconcile?
The ends in this case do justify the means. If we had Hillary the alternative would have been a far left Court


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Likes: Chief
Nov 2016
6,721
6,281
USA
#7
The ends in this case do justify the means. If we had Hillary the alternative would have been a far left Court


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
A far right court is just as unacceptable and is just one more reason for those of us who care about America and some modicum of moral decency in this country to vote against trump and any right wing candidate.
 

johnflesh

Former Staff
Feb 2007
25,332
17,760
Colorado
#8
I don't disagree that Trump has provided results. But if you are a person of faith, you should be putting your faith in God, and your means should glorify God. (From my earlier link) Any one of the Republican candidates listed earlier, were they in the same time slot as Trump would have picked conservative leaning justices... so that didn't have to be Trump.
I don't disagree with what you've said about faith, but that may not be exactly how it works. As in, faith in a creator or voting in one of many of elections is not mutually exclusive.

Trump did beat out many on the road to 2016 but not all. And I'm not 100% certain how much support he had from the religious communities to get that nomination. In the end he was the nominee and perhaps at that point he was the better choice, among the religious. I don't know.
 
Likes: Chief
Jul 2011
77,242
43,078
Memphis, Tn.
#10
The ends in this case do justify the means. If we had Hillary the alternative would have been a far left Court


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Fine, so let's not hear any more of your "because the Bible says ....: bullshit.
You will happily ignore any part of the Bible that cannot be used to support your RW consevative political agenda.