Communism is NOT liberal

The Man

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Jul 2011
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I have often seen American conservatives here and elsewhere refer to liberals as Commies or compare them to Communists. It always confused me.

If anything, the Communist ideology in the old Soviet Union was highly socially CONSERVATIVE.

Homosexuality was completely illegal, period.

Sergey Parajanov, a well known filmmaker back then, who died in 1990, also of Armenian heritage like me, did time in GULag camps for engaging in homosexuality

He was far from alone. Lots of people got locked up for it back in those days.

Abortion was also illegal until around mid-1970s, way into the Brezhnev era.

Under Stalin, it was the worst in late 40s and early 50s, when doctors and others actually faced death by firing squad for providing aborts.

There was, back then rationale for this, Stalin wanted as many babies as possible, to compensate for the horrible losses the Soviet population had just endured in WWII

But, this also led to many women dying horrible deaths in gruesome botched illegal abortions...

There were strict morality rules in the Soviet Union also.

A woman, for example, could not share her hotel room with a man she was not married to (and vise versa)

A couple checking into a Soviet hotel together literally had to show the marriage stamps in their passports, to prove they are in a legitimate union. And many less fancy hotels and sanatoriums had outright separate wings with bunks for males and females lol

Aside from hotels, a couple could not live together period, unless and until they were married. To this day, you see older, Soviet generation people shaking their heads at young couples, who now much more commonly cohabitate before official marriage. The old ones see this as degradation of moral values in modern Russia, "Wasn't like this in our day", they grumble haha

Soviet movies and TV also never showed nudity or sex scenes.

An actress named Natalia Seleznyova became immortalized for simply being the first ever Soviet actress to wear a bikini in a film, in late 60s

It was a totally innocuous scene, in a comedy about university students and their life in a dorm. And even this was fairly controversial back then haha

So, yeah, it was a rather conservative society, very much so.

Only thing that was missing, you might say, was religion.

And, really, even the Church was no longer persecuted or banned, by the 60s, Brezhnev had no problem with them

They did NOT have the influence and reach they have now, of course lol Nobody was allowed to compete with the Party and their ideology.

But, they and their believers were relatively free to live as they wished, by their faith :smiley-shrug:

So, yes, a model conservative society. Only missing the free market, that's one difference, the planned economy :)

But, point is, there was nothing "liberal" about Communism, at least, the Soviet version.
 
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The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
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Would you agree that pornography was almost non-existent in the Soviet Union?
There was no porn back then.

There was, mind you, sex for money, totally.

There were secret clubs for party apparatchiks and other powerful and wealthy people, secret millionaires, back then

for example, people who ran the meat industry, even local butcher shop managers, were very wealthy back then, by Soviet standards, there were all kinds of shady deals ran with meat, a whole "meat mafia" back then, in fact, in the 70s, no joke lol

You could, reportedly, rent yourself a girl for the night in those places


For the average mortals, however, those without access to that hidden world, there was no porn, no brothels, no nothing like that.

I know a guy back in Moscow, a former neighbor, I recall him telling how some uncle of his, who was a diplomat in America, brought back a copy of Playboy or Hustler or something. And he was able to steal it off him, and then all the boys in the neighborhood came together with him to look at it :D
 
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The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
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Toronto
Communism is the next worst level above dreadful Socialism.
Marx's own theories weren't bad per se...

He wanted equality, workers rights, etc.

Problem is, it hasn't worked out well anywhere it was attempted in practice. Soviet Union, China, Cuba, etc, all got it wrong... China is doing much better now, only because they did end up introducing some capitalistic, market-based economic policies. But they too were an inpoverished basketcase before that, under Mao and such...

I don't know. Maybe Marx's ideas really are unworkable in real life. Perhaps humans are just too flawed :smiley-shrug:
 
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Marx's own theories weren't bad per se...

He wanted equality, workers rights, etc.

Problem is, it hasn't worked out well anywhere it was attempted in practice. Soviet Union, China, Cuba, etc, all got it wrong... China is doing much better now, only because they did end up introducing some capitalistic, market-based economic policies. But they too were an inpoverished basketcase before that, under Mao and such...

I don't know. Maybe Marx's ideas really are unworkable in real life. Perhaps humans are just too flawed :smiley-shrug:
Communism works with tribes. When your society is in the few hundred people, everyone needs to contribute, and simultaneously everyone needs everyone's help.

You even state it, countries that embrace communism / socialism start degrading, and even China needed to enable some capitalistic functions to sustain their communist level control.
 
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Blues63

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Dec 2014
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I think many equate Communism with Liberalism either to create an ad hominem attack to poison the discussion, or they conflate the 'left' with 'Communism', much like those on the left often equate right wing leanings with 'Nazism'. All are equally invalid and should be ignored.
 
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Jul 2011
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I have often seen American conservatives here and elsewhere refer to liberals as Commies or compare them to Communists. It always confused me.

If anything, the Communist ideology in the old Soviet Union was highly socially CONSERVATIVE.

Homosexuality was completely illegal, period.

Sergey Parajanov, a well known filmmaker back then, who died in 1990, also of Armenian heritage like me, did time in GULag camps for engaging in homosexuality

He was far from alone. Lots of people got locked up for it back in those days.

Abortion was also illegal until around mid-1970s, way into the Brezhnev era.

Under Stalin, it was the worst in late 40s and early 50s, when doctors and others actually faced death by firing squad for providing aborts.

There was, back then rationale for this, Stalin wanted as many babies as possible, to compensate for the horrible losses the Soviet population had just endured in WWII

But, this also led to many women dying horrible deaths in gruesome botched illegal abortions...

There were strict morality rules in the Soviet Union also.

A woman, for example, could not share her hotel room with a man she was not married to (and vise versa)

A couple checking into a Soviet hotel together literally had to show the marriage stamps in their passports, to prove they are in a legitimate union. And many less fancy hotels and sanatoriums had outright separate wings with bunks for males and females lol

Aside from hotels, a couple could not live together period, unless and until they were married. To this day, you see older, Soviet generation people shaking their heads at young couples, who now much more commonly cohabitate before official marriage. The old ones see this as degradation of moral values in modern Russia, "Wasn't like this in our day", they grumble haha

Soviet movies and TV also never showed nudity or sex scenes.

An actress named Natalia Seleznyova became immortalized for simply being the first ever Soviet actress to wear a bikini in a film, in late 60s

It was a totally innocuous scene, in a comedy about university students and their life in a dorm. And even this was fairly controversial back then haha

So, yeah, it was a rather conservative society, very much so.

Only thing that was missing, you might say, was religion.

And, really, even the Church was no longer persecuted or banned, by the 60s, Brezhnev had no problem with them

They did NOT have the influence and reach they have now, of course lol Nobody was allowed to compete with the Party and their ideology.

But, they and their believers were relatively free to live as they wished, by their faith :smiley-shrug:

So, yes, a model conservative society. Only missing the free market, that's one difference, the planned economy :)

But, point is, there was nothing "liberal" about Communism, at least, the Soviet version.
RW conservatives are generally simply not very bright people. They are like children that hear an adult say a dirty word and they repeat it at someone they are mad at. They don't really know what it means they just know it's something bad, that's all.
It really is just that simple.
 
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Oct 2014
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I think many equate Communism with Liberalism either to create an ad hominem attack to poison the discussion, or they conflate the 'left' with 'Communism', much like those on the left often equate right wing leanings with 'Nazism'. All are equally invalid and should be ignored.
I'm sure in cases that is true, but there is very little distinctions that can be made to differentiate the two ideologies in the modern context.
 
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Don't really consider the old Soviet Union as "communism". More in line with totalitarianism. Harsh cruel rule.

Communism as a concept is actually pretty attractive. All for one, one for all. Everybody pitching in together for the benefit of the whole. Unfortunately when one factors in the basics of human nature (ambition, laziness, greed, jealousy, did i mention laziness?) the economic/societal model doesn't hold up for very long.

Kumbya....!!
 
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