Corporations Are Good

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freckles

#91
You see, I don't believe that.

I believe that once someone earns something by giving up other things, it's theirs. They can take it, or give it at will.

To me, the government exists for nothing more than to create, and protect the rights of the people.

You sound like a libertarian. Good job!
 
F

Feslin

#92
Well, I do believe it, because I value suffering and objective levels of welfare more than abstract "RIGHTS" which don't even exist outside the minds of people who invented them.
They exist in the laws now, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
I believe it's incredibly heinous to allow someone to die because you are absolutist and think your property, at any cost, is worth more.
I never said anything about allowing someone else to die. I wouldn't, but if someone is a stingy bastard, then it's their 'right'. Money is gained with time. Time is the absolute most valuable possesion of everyone, next to life. Now, I think taxes are a necessary evil. How can the rights of the people be protected without government? They can't. I disagree with FfA there.
I also disagree with your philosophy of what government is supposed to do. I don't think, at all, it is only there to protect the rights of people. It is there to help reduce unnecessary suffering as well, to create order.
That's, ultimately, where our philosophies differ.
That you would rather someone die than steal to survive at little comparable sacrifice to the thieved party is fairly atrocious.
I don't know what makes you think I would support the death of one person if it meant another would lose their possesions. HOWEVER, what I want is not what matters to me. Do keep in mind that I'm Christian, and if I were to have it my way we would live in a totally Pacifist and totally communist society.
I hate these minimum character caps...
 
T

Technocratic_Utilitarian

#93
You sound like a libertarian. Good job!
Libertarians often place abstract rights and inert property over actual human life, suffering, and harm.

They are a peculiar type. Almost as bad as religious fundamentalists who put human life, suffering, and harm above another imaginary abstraction--God.
 
T

Technocratic_Utilitarian

#94
Reply to Felsin:

I am sorry then, I just don't know what you are arguing then. From what you wrote, it implied that, because people have absolute property rights, it would be wrong for that person to steal to survive, since you esesentially disagreed with my defense of doing so.

You went "I disagree" to my affirmation that it would in fact be ethical to steal. What did you expect me to infer?

Yes, if they want to be a stingy bastard, they have a "right" to do that. That's their custom. Let them express it. It's also my custom to kick them in the ass and take the money. I will practice it.

That someone has the right to cause and allow suffering, while not violating a right, does not mean it's ethical or OUGHT to be allowed. Someone is fully free to emotionally bully and torture others, making them feel like shit and suffer. They got a "right" to do that. they aren't violating a right, but I don't have to tolerate them exercizing that right.
 
F

Feslin

#95
Yes, I disagree because of my agnostic side (political side).

The agnostic part of me is as libertarian as libertarian gets. Well, not quite, but close.

The Christian side of me is pacifist and communist, whatever it takes to make God happy.
 
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Technocratic_Utilitarian

#96
Yes, I disagree because of my agnostic side (political side).

The agnostic part of me is as libertarian as libertarian gets. Well, not quite, but close.

The Christian side of me is pacifist and communist, whatever it takes to make God happy.
You needn't be a communist to care about human suffering. I am not a Communist, yet I care.

You can have a philosphical, non-communist philosphy that permits alleviating unnecessary suffering. Utilitarianism isn't synonomous with socialism or communism.

My actual philosophy is Secular Humanist/Utilitarian. My political philosophy is technocracy.
 
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Freedom for All

#98
I'm not a communist, and I really care. I care that people are robbed so sad sack socialists can show how caring they are. I care that people struggling to make ends meet have to carry a higher tax burden to support people struggling to scam the system. I care that people who see others getting a free ride will get the urges to take one of them there free tickets. And I certainly care that the people doing all the work are also the people getting the blame.
 
F

Freedom for All

#99
Now, I think taxes are a necessary evil. How can the rights of the people be protected without government? They can't. I disagree with FfA there.
No, you just don't understand.

LIMITED government is essential to society.

Those limits are to establish laws that maximize the freedom of the individual, establish courts to adjudicate those laws, and establish law enforcement to support those laws.

Just laws are limited to those laws that protect the individual from deliberate acts of harm from another, or from theft by another through either physical threat or fraud, and laws establishing the integrity of contracts.

That's it. Laws shouldn't be written to establish a nanny state. If one individual doens't choose to support another, or a group of them, it's his personal freedom to decline. Laws that impose on him and force him to play humanitarian are laws that violate the basic functions of government, and thus are laws that do not enhance the freedom of the people.

Taxes should be limited to financing the proper roles of government. If the people want to establish charities to help the poor, that's just wonderful. The key concept behind "charity" is voluntary participation.
 
R

RonaldReaganRocks

I'm not a communist, and I really care. I care that people are robbed so sad sack socialists can show how caring they are. I care that people struggling to make ends meet have to carry a higher tax burden to support people struggling to scam the system. I care that people who see others getting a free ride will get the urges to take one of them there free tickets. And I certainly care that the people doing all the work are also the people getting the blame.
Very true, nice call!