Do you have a RIGHT to be where you are? Standing your ground and duty to retreat

Dec 2018
2,751
1,015
Florida
#62
How could he theaten you with violence while unarmed?
He could say something to the effect of “I will kill you!”

You could easily disable him by punching him in the face,
No you can’t.

kicking him in the testicles.
That isn’t how groin strikes work.


So my question remains: What kind of person would SHOOT an unarmed man?
Have you ever taken REAL self defense classes? Been in any kind of REAL physical fight? Sport OR real? These statements lead me to think you don’t fully grasp how this stuff works. First and foremost? I don’t think that is a BAD thing. That is GOOD for you. It means you have lived peacefully and been fortunate not to be a victim.

But?

I have PILES of videos that you can watch. From DonutOperator police breakdowns (he is a cop who reviews police videos based on the law and explains why officers react certain ways) to UFC fights to straight out of the hood fights and self defense videos. I even have First World War era hand to hand combat videos for the US army. I can throw up lots of these if you want to educate yourself. Here is just one example of what one unarmed person can do to another:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...09377c-337e-11e8-8bdd-cdb33a5eef83_story.html

It can happen by accident. A blow to the back of the head can leave you paralyzed. Shit like this is why I’ve said for a while: “I’m too damn old to fight.”
 
Dec 2018
2,751
1,015
Florida
#64
Risk is relative.
" ...The chance of dying from gun violence overall is about 50% greater than the lifetime risk of dying while riding inside a car, truck, or van (a category that excludes pedestrian, cyclist, and other deaths outside of a motor vehicle). It's also more than 10 times as high as dying from any force of nature, such as a hurricane, tornado, earthquake, flood, or lightning strike.

These measures suggest Americans are more likely to die from gun violence than the combined risks of drowning, fire and smoke, stabbing, choking on food, airplane crashes, animal attacks, and natural disasters... "

The odds that a gun will kill the average American may surprise you
You know. Your obsession with guns leads me to think you don’t want to actually address the topic: should you be allowed to defend yourself if someone tries to violently force you from a location that you legally are at? I know that in the UK, you don’t really have rights. But this discussion is more about whether you should have that right to fight back against someone trying to harm you or make you leave.
 
Dec 2018
2,751
1,015
Florida
#65
I think, morally, we should all look for a retreat before we pull the trigger. Personally, I would rather deal with a few bruises than live with the thought I took someones life. It should be your last resort. I can see, if you live in a Stand Your Ground State, you might pull the trigger a little easier if you know you would get away with it. I have heard from many Vets, cops etc.....if you level a gun at someone, you better be able to pull the trigger because the other persons fight or flight (adrenaline rush) will set in and they could very easily take the gun away from you and kill you. Many will freeze when they see the outcome of taking a life.
1) Never point a gun at something you aren’t willing to destroy. Ever. I recently had a talk with my girlfriend about her getting a gun. So I asked her: if someone comes in to your home...would you shoot them? She said no. She couldn’t do it. She isn’t getting a gun now. I’m glad. If you just couldn’t pull the trigger? Even if you had to? You shouldn’t have a gun. Might as well have a popgun.

2) Perhaps they are? But your words indicate you understand the difference between a moral and a legal obligation. Telling someone they MUST retreat? They have an obligation? It leaves out the nature of how an altercation can occur. Sometimes? You could TRY, but it doesn’t mean you will succeed.
 

The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
44,561
31,129
Toronto
#66
You know. Your obsession with guns leads me to think you don’t want to actually address the topic: should you be allowed to defend yourself if someone tries to violently force you from a location that you legally are at? I know that in the UK, you don’t really have rights. But this discussion is more about whether you should have that right to fight back against someone trying to harm you or make you leave.
UK invented modern democracy, dude... Magna Carta and all that.
 
Dec 2018
2,751
1,015
Florida
#67
UK invented modern democracy, dude... Magna Carta and all that.
He has privileges. Not rights.

A privilege is a certain entitlement to immunity granted by the state or another authority to a restricted group, either by birth or on a conditional basis. ... By contrast, a right is an inherent, irrevocable entitlement held by all citizens or all human beings from the moment of birth.
I know. It is a bit petty. But here in the United States, rights have a much stronger meaning.
 
Likes: The Man

The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
44,561
31,129
Toronto
#68
1) Never point a gun at something you aren’t willing to destroy. Ever. I recently had a talk with my girlfriend about her getting a gun. So I asked her: if someone comes in to your home...would you shoot them? She said no. She couldn’t do it. She isn’t getting a gun now. I’m glad. If you just couldn’t pull the trigger? Even if you had to? You shouldn’t have a gun. Might as well have a popgun.

2) Perhaps they are? But your words indicate you understand the difference between a moral and a legal obligation. Telling someone they MUST retreat? They have an obligation? It leaves out the nature of how an altercation can occur. Sometimes? You could TRY, but it doesn’t mean you will succeed.
Russian police train for deadly force with guns in three steps: 1. warning shot in the air; 2. if person does not heed the warning, non-lethal shot to neutralize typically aimed for the legs; and 3. if previous ineffective, shoot to kill, body and head.

It's not without controversy over there. Some cop organizations claim it allows dangerous suspects to potentially get to close to their personnel and injure them. But, yeah, that's the code over there, for now.
 

HCProf

Moderator
Sep 2014
27,131
16,178
USA
#69
1) Never point a gun at something you aren’t willing to destroy. Ever. I recently had a talk with my girlfriend about her getting a gun. So I asked her: if someone comes in to your home...would you shoot them? She said no. She couldn’t do it. She isn’t getting a gun now. I’m glad. If you just couldn’t pull the trigger? Even if you had to? You shouldn’t have a gun. Might as well have a popgun.

2) Perhaps they are? But your words indicate you understand the difference between a moral and a legal obligation. Telling someone they MUST retreat? They have an obligation? It leaves out the nature of how an altercation can occur. Sometimes? You could TRY, but it doesn’t mean you will succeed.
This is our retreat plan in the case an intruder breaks in while we are home. We sleep upstairs. If the dogs wake us up and someone is downstairs, we will inform them that we called 911 and we are armed. If they proceed up the stairs, they are at their own risk at that point. My concern would be my dogs...:). I am pretty sure if I saw one hair on their cute little bodies in danger, I would turn into a crazed animal. LOL An intruder would shoot a dog or just snap its neck to make it stop barking. That would be unacceptable to me and there would be consequences.
 
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HCProf

Moderator
Sep 2014
27,131
16,178
USA
#70
He could say something to the effect of “I will kill you!”



No you can’t.


That isn’t how groin strikes work.




Have you ever taken REAL self defense classes? Been in any kind of REAL physical fight? Sport OR real? These statements lead me to think you don’t fully grasp how this stuff works. First and foremost? I don’t think that is a BAD thing. That is GOOD for you. It means you have lived peacefully and been fortunate not to be a victim.

But?

I have PILES of videos that you can watch. From DonutOperator police breakdowns (he is a cop who reviews police videos based on the law and explains why officers react certain ways) to UFC fights to straight out of the hood fights and self defense videos. I even have First World War era hand to hand combat videos for the US army. I can throw up lots of these if you want to educate yourself. Here is just one example of what one unarmed person can do to another:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...09377c-337e-11e8-8bdd-cdb33a5eef83_story.html

It can happen by accident. A blow to the back of the head can leave you paralyzed. Shit like this is why I’ve said for a while: “I’m too damn old to fight.”
I have taken a couple of self defense classes because I work in the inner city and the hospital provided the classes. We were told to run...as fast as we can if possible. If that doesn't work...go for the groin, eyes, knees, and throat. He also said, if you are cornered and there is no way out....go full gorilla on them with everything you have. At that point, you have nothing to lose.
 
Likes: The Man