Do you have a RIGHT to be where you are? Standing your ground and duty to retreat

Ian Jeffrey

Council Hall
Mar 2013
73,873
42,386
Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
#71
He has privileges. Not rights.



I know. It is a bit petty. But here in the United States, rights have a much stronger meaning.
I have to agree with The Man on this one. The rights protected in the United States are derived directly from the rights human beings had under British law.

The problem in the Revolutionary era is not that we did not have those rights, but rather that the British government kept violating them, and because of the governmental structure we were left without recourse, including representation in that government to begin with. Early American judicial decisions (and sometimes contemporary ones) cite to English law as a matter of precedent - not because English law is binding in the United States (it is not), but because the underlying principles of English common law were adopted by the founders as a natural continuation. They sought (initially) not to make something new, but rather to preserve the rights we already had that were being violated. That concept was the driving ideological force behind the Declaration of Independence, which includes a statement of basic principles underlying the common law; a list of violations of our natural rights; our attempts to seek (and failure to obtain) redress; and the concluding declaration.

If there were not rights under English law, there would be no rights under American law, either.
 
Likes: The Man

Ian Jeffrey

Council Hall
Mar 2013
73,873
42,386
Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
#72
My concern would be my dogs...:). I am pretty sure if I saw one hair on their cute little bodies in danger, I would turn into a crazed animal. LOL An intruder would shoot a dog or just snap its neck to make it stop barking. That would be unacceptable to me and there would be consequences.
Never mind the dog ... beware of owner! :)
 
Likes: HCProf
Jul 2013
4,304
4,894
Ohio
#73
He could say something to the effect of “I will kill you!”



No you can’t.


That isn’t how groin strikes work.




Have you ever taken REAL self defense classes? Been in any kind of REAL physical fight? Sport OR real? These statements lead me to think you don’t fully grasp how this stuff works. First and foremost? I don’t think that is a BAD thing. That is GOOD for you. It means you have lived peacefully and been fortunate not to be a victim.

But?

I have PILES of videos that you can watch. From DonutOperator police breakdowns (he is a cop who reviews police videos based on the law and explains why officers react certain ways) to UFC fights to straight out of the hood fights and self defense videos. I even have First World War era hand to hand combat videos for the US army. I can throw up lots of these if you want to educate yourself. Here is just one example of what one unarmed person can do to another:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...09377c-337e-11e8-8bdd-cdb33a5eef83_story.html

It can happen by accident. A blow to the back of the head can leave you paralyzed. Shit like this is why I’ve said for a while: “I’m too damn old to fight.”
Your defense of shooting an unarmed person.....is a bit much and therefore suspect.
 
Dec 2018
2,851
1,043
Florida
#74
Your defense of shooting an unarmed person.....is a bit much and therefore suspect.
No. You just don’t want to come off your response because you are squeamish about the idea. And AGAIN, that is TOTALLY OK. It means you haven’t actually contemplated the issue on any level. Good for you. But since you haven’t. I will give you a quick scenario.

A large man (6’0 250lbs) is drunk and he picks a fight with a smaller man (say 5’5 140). The small guy tries to get away and leave the situation, but before he can react the drunk guy just grabs him and throws him to the ground and starts beating him and putting the boots to him. Should the small man just take his beating? Just for being smaller? Shouldn’t shoot the big guy even though he is armed?
 
Dec 2018
2,851
1,043
Florida
#75
This is our retreat plan in the case an intruder breaks in while we are home. We sleep upstairs. If the dogs wake us up and someone is downstairs, we will inform them that we called 911 and we are armed. If they proceed up the stairs, they are at their own risk at that point. My concern would be my dogs...:). I am pretty sure if I saw one hair on their cute little bodies in danger, I would turn into a crazed animal. LOL An intruder would shoot a dog or just snap its neck to make it stop barking. That would be unacceptable to me and there would be consequences.
I have a 60 pound pit mix. I doubt anyone would come through the door with her barking. But I also know she wouldn’t do anything, so I don’t rely on her. I have almost gotten in a fight as a result of someone trying to kick her though. So I get it. I’m in a position that someone would be facing me before the dog though.
 
Dec 2018
2,851
1,043
Florida
#76
I have taken a couple of self defense classes because I work in the inner city and the hospital provided the classes. We were told to run...as fast as we can if possible. If that doesn't work...go for the groin, eyes, knees, and throat. He also said, if you are cornered and there is no way out....go full gorilla on them with everything you have. At that point, you have nothing to lose.
If you have no choice but to fight? VIOLENCE OF ACTION. Win at all costs, cheat if necessary. Gimmicks don’t work. You have to be willing to hurt the other person and realize you will probably get hurt too.

Getting out of the situation is the best bet. But sadly? That doesn’t always work. I had a friend who was being harassed by an ex. She got beaten up one time by him and got her concealed. He tried again, but she saw him coming and drew down on him. Probably saved her life since escalating patterns of violence are a VERY VERY bad sign in an abusive relationship. He went to jail of course too.
 

The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
44,649
31,205
Toronto
#77
No. You just don’t want to come off your response because you are squeamish about the idea. And AGAIN, that is TOTALLY OK. It means you haven’t actually contemplated the issue on any level. Good for you. But since you haven’t. I will give you a quick scenario.

A large man (6’0 250lbs) is drunk and he picks a fight with a smaller man (say 5’5 140). The small guy tries to get away and leave the situation, but before he can react the drunk guy just grabs him and throws him to the ground and starts beating him and putting the boots to him. Should the small man just take his beating? Just for being smaller? Shouldn’t shoot the big guy even though he is armed?
And nobody comes to the aid of the man being assaulted? Based on your situation, I assume it is in a bar or night club of some sort? Would such a place not have bouncers or some kind of security staff? What about other bystanders?

I would hope someone gets involved to help a fellow human being...
 
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The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
44,649
31,205
Toronto
#78
I have a 60 pound pit mix. I doubt anyone would come through the door with her barking. But I also know she wouldn’t do anything, so I don’t rely on her. I have almost gotten in a fight as a result of someone trying to kick her though. So I get it. I’m in a position that someone would be facing me before the dog though.
I love animals too. Once actually jumped another kid in my Moscow school for kicking around the cat that lived in our school yard. Set off a hell of a brawl lol His buddies and mine all jumped in, about three dozen people were fighting, by the peak of it haha Blood on the snow and all...

Cats are special to me. My mom always loved em, still does. As long as I can remember, she fed all the stray cats in our town back in Abkhazia... Even saved some during the war back in the 90s... Now that all us kids are gone from the old family home, she got three or four cats. Drives dad crazy, apparently, but he can't do anything about it lmao
 

HCProf

Moderator
Sep 2014
27,196
16,256
USA
#79
I have a 60 pound pit mix. I doubt anyone would come through the door with her barking. But I also know she wouldn’t do anything, so I don’t rely on her. I have almost gotten in a fight as a result of someone trying to kick her though. So I get it. I’m in a position that someone would be facing me before the dog though.
I have two small Jack Russel Terriers. They are just small versions of Pits. :) My little girls are fierce and bad ass. One of them is 10 pounds, slender, and dainty looking but when I brush her teeth...she has the biggest wolf like teeth I have ever seen. LOL Her teeth definitely does not match her ladylike appearance. Even tho they are both "snuggle bugs" they are also very protective of me...to the point I have involved trainers. I know they would attack if someone tried to harm me and that is the part that would scare me.
 

HCProf

Moderator
Sep 2014
27,196
16,256
USA
#80
If you have no choice but to fight? VIOLENCE OF ACTION. Win at all costs, cheat if necessary. Gimmicks don’t work. You have to be willing to hurt the other person and realize you will probably get hurt too.

Getting out of the situation is the best bet. But sadly? That doesn’t always work. I had a friend who was being harassed by an ex. She got beaten up one time by him and got her concealed. He tried again, but she saw him coming and drew down on him. Probably saved her life since escalating patterns of violence are a VERY VERY bad sign in an abusive relationship. He went to jail of course too.
I have a friend who works at a major hospital downtown. She is a RN. The hospital campus is relatively safe but the parking garage is located on a dangerous street. She is too frugal to park in the main parking lot and uses a off campus lot near the hospital. She drives down one of the streets and there is always a group of people hanging around and they started yelling things to her and she would just punch it and drive past them. One day, they encircled her car and she calmly rolled down the window and leveled her .38 snubby right out the window at them. She cocked the trigger and they all ran. They left her alone after that. LOL