Do you have respect for Lisa Murkowski today or not?

Sep 2006
5,985
6,158
Englewood, Fl
#53
Senator Daines was willing to come and vote, even though it meant missing his daughter's wedding. An airplane was on standby to take him. Pairing is not uncommon. It was often done across party lines, especially if a senator was ill, had a family obligation, or could not be in DC for some other reason. The vote was on a Saturday that was not planned to be in session. Things happen. At least you now understand what pairing is and why it is done.

As for Senator Joe Manchin, he would not have voted yes if his vote was the determining vote. It was strictly a political vote to protect himself, and the Democrat party. Losing the WV senate seat would hurt the Democrat party for six years. Politics has a lot of moving parts. It's not always cut and dried. There are times that a senator has be willing to vote in favor of something that he or she disagrees with, to get something important in return. Often this is support on another vote but in this case, it was to not put the Manchin seat at further risk in WV.
You can talk about moving parts all you want but to simply accept that as what they are there for is to accept partisan politics as a whole. I don't. Congress members take an oath to be loyal to the country first. Manchin did the wrong thing as did everyone who voted yes. This was not even a close call. Only a fraction of the documents needed to properly vet him were provided and the question of sexual assault was not settled by a long shot. He has no more business to be on the Supreme Court than Trump has to be in the Oval Office.
 
Likes: Coyote

Southern Dad

Former Staff
Feb 2015
39,477
8,185
Shady Dale, Georgia
#54
You can talk about moving parts all you want but to simply accept that as what they are there for is to accept partisan politics as a whole. I don't. Congress members take an oath to be loyal to the country first. Manchin did the wrong thing as did everyone who voted yes. This was not even a close call. Only a fraction of the documents needed to properly vet him were provided and the question of sexual assault was not settled by a long shot. He has no more business to be on the Supreme Court than Trump has to be in the Oval Office.
Face it, your side lost. It's Justice Brett Kavanaugh now. He's 52-years-old with a lifetime appointment. The Democrats tried to smear him and it failed. More documents were reviewed on him than the last five justices combined. It really didn't matter the Democrats weren't going to vote to confirm him no matter how many documents were provided.
 
Jun 2014
42,580
41,346
United States
#55
I'm disappointed in her vote of "Present" unless I missed something. Did she end up a solid no? And I'm disgusted by Manchin. Not enough guts to do the right thing because his cushy job won out over his duty. IMHO
I'm not particularly disappointed by either Murkowski or Manchin's votes, but I certainly don't consider either of their actions to be heroic.

The confirmation was a done deal without 2 or more defections among the Senate Republicans and that simply didn't happen. Senators can be expected to represent their constituents, and the majority of Alaskans were opposed to Kavanaugh while the majority of West Virginians supported him. No politician can accomplish anything if they fail to be elected, or reelected, as is the case here.
 
Sep 2006
5,985
6,158
Englewood, Fl
#57
Face it, your side lost. It's Justice Brett Kavanaugh now. He's 52-years-old with a lifetime appointment. The Democrats tried to smear him and it failed. More documents were reviewed on him than the last five justices combined. It really didn't matter the Democrats weren't going to vote to confirm him no matter how many documents were provided.
So you accuse me of partisanism while talking partisan trash? BTW, Bullshit. There were hundreds of thousands of docs held back from review and the sham FBI investigation produced over 1000 pages of notes to accompany the 302 docs and the Democrats got an hour to peruse them with no copies to take with them for study. The principles in the sexual assault matter were not even contacted and many witnesses were also not interviewed, some even contacted the FBI and were refused because of restrictions put on the FBI by your team. Couple that with the flat out refusal by McConnell to even bring a vote to the floor on Garland and the picture comes into focus of who the partisan hacks truly are.
 
Likes: NightSwimmer
Sep 2006
5,985
6,158
Englewood, Fl
#58
I'm not particularly disappointed by either Murkowski or Manchin's votes, but I certainly don't consider either of their actions to be heroic.

The confirmation was a done deal without 2 or more defections among the Senate Republicans and that simply didn't happen. Senators can be expected to represent their constituents, and the majority of Alaskans were opposed to Kavanaugh while the majority of West Virginians supported him. No politician can accomplish anything if they fail to be elected, or reelected, as is the case here.
This vote was not the run o the mill vote that affects mostly Manchin's constituents. This was a historic action that will have repercussions for decades for all Americans. And the unusual circumstances surrounding this particular candidate called for unusual consideration that transcends just a state or an individual congressman. IMHO Manchin. Collins and Murkowski were handed just enough cover by the sham investigation to allow them to toe the GOP party line and they took it. In the case of Manchin, I believe it was a chicken shit way out and he jumped like a frog.
 
Likes: Coyote
Jun 2014
42,580
41,346
United States
#59
This vote was not the run o the mill vote that affects mostly Manchin's constituents. This was a historic action that will have repercussions for decades for all Americans. And the unusual circumstances surrounding this particular candidate called for unusual consideration that transcends just a state or an individual congressman. IMHO Manchin. Collins and Murkowski were handed just enough cover by the sham investigation to allow them to toe the GOP party line and they took it. In the case of Manchin, I believe it was a chicken shit way out and he jumped like a frog.

Well, he's not my Senator, so I can't vote for or against him. That said, I'd rather have a conservative Democrat as West Virginia's Senator than any Republican. It does matter which party holds the majority.
 
Likes: namvet69
Nov 2014
29,795
5,347
North Carolina
#60
If she felt this way, why did it take her until this morning?
She also did not make her opinion loud enough to sway the swing voters.
It seems like they group planned how they would do this vote, when those folks got in the room together.




SENATOR LISA MURKOWSKI: I did not come to a decision on this until walking onto the floor this morning. I have been wrestling to really try to know what is fair and what is right, and the truth is, that none of this has been fair.


The following is a transcript of that statement, as prepared by The New York Times.

This hasn’t been fair to the judge, but I also recognize that we need to have institutions that are viewed as fair and if people who are victims, people who feel that there is no fairness in our system of government, particularly in our courts, then you’ve gone down a path that is not good and right for this country. And so I have been wrestling with whether or not this was about qualifications of a good man or is this bigger than the nomination.
And I believe we’re dealing with issues right now that are bigger than the nominee and how we ensure fairness and how our legislative and judicial branch can continue to be respected. This is what I have been wrestling with, and so I made the — took the very difficult vote that I did.

I believe Brett Kavanaugh’s a good man. It just may be that in my view he’s not the right man for the court at this time. So I have taken my vote here this morning, I’m going to go back to my office and write a floor statement that is more fulsome and have the opportunity to have that.
But this has truly been the most difficult evaluation of a decision that I have ever had to make, and I’ve made some interesting ones in my career. But I value and respect where my colleagues have come down from in their support for the judge, and I think we’re at a place where we need to begin thinking about the credibility and integrity of our institutions.
I don't know much about the senator - but this absurd statement certainly doesn't prompt any respect from me.

Either fairness and the presumption of innocent matters or it doesn't. You can't deny opportunity to someone simply because their political opponents are smearing them in the media. That is no way to run a government - and if I lived in Alaska her cowardice and or stupidity on this issue would have lost her my support. The best way to protect our institutions of Government is to hold dear the principles that created them - not to toss them aside to accommodate a smear job.

The fact she admits he was a good man and was treated unfairly yet still refused to vote for him makes her vote one of the more contemptible ones in my judgement.