Donald Trump, Enemy Of Free Markets

StanStill

Former Staff
Dec 2013
12,801
14,323
Work
#21
Bumping this thread, as I am again encountering uninformed posters who seem to think that Donald Trump is the 'savior' of free market capitalism. Gosh, he's nothing of the kind.
Clearly not. Free market capitalism is a mythological utopia that has never existed, hopefully never will, and we're all better off for it.
 
Jan 2016
54,716
51,258
Colorado
#22
Clearly not. Free market capitalism is a mythological utopia that has never existed, hopefully never will, and we're all better off for it.
While we certainly don't want pure laissez faire capitalism, free markets are a very powerful error-correcting mechanism, and NO enlightened society would want to do without them. Without them, you would end up looking like the wildly dysfunctional Soviet economy of the 1970's and early 1980's, where they were truly trying to 'plan' everything from the Kremlin, right down to the number of pencils that the Soviet Union should produce, where they should be produced, who should be producing them, and so on. Ridiculous.
 
Sep 2013
44,480
35,532
On a hill
#25
Liberals like Trump just don't get it. Capitalism works.
I read this article this morning describing how trumps brilliant trade strategy is working.


  • As the trade conflict between the US and China rumbles on, winners and losers are starting to emerge from the conflict which has seen the two nations swap tariffs on more than $US200 billion of goods.
  • Brazil has seen exports to China jump as a result of the stopping of US soybean exports to China thanks to the trade war.
  • Beside the USA, Germany has suffered the most of any major economy
A simple chart shows the winners and losers from Trump's trade war with China

Trump is making russia, and brazil great again. Way to go trump!
 
Feb 2019
316
76
Florida
#27
Donald Trump is waging war on free markets in the energy sector. His brilliant plan, a perfect example of the kind of hare-brained centralized economic planning we used to see right out of the Kremlin in the 'glory' days of the sickly Soviet economy, is to force American consumers to pay higher energy prices, in order to subsidize and forcibly keep open, failing coal-fired power plants that would otherwise be going out of business:

Trump administration taking 'immediate steps' to try to stop closure of coal, nuclear power plants

Here is an interesting quote: "Unprecedented government intervention in the energy markets to support high-cost generation will hurt consumers by taking more money out of their pockets rather than letting them keep more of what they earn," said Todd Snitchler of the American Petroleum Institute, the top lobbying group of the oil and gas industry. [So it is not just the renewable energy industry that finds this kind of support for the failing coal industry to be stupid policy!]

Forcing American taxpayers to bailout uneconomical power plants is an assault on free market principles, if there ever was one!

The Wall Street Journal had a few more details in the Saturday edition. Malcolm Woolf oversees policy at Advanced Energy Economy, a trade group representing business consumers. He said: "The Administration's plan to federalize the electric power system is an exercise in crony capitalism taken solely for the benefit of a bankrupt power-plant owner and its coal supplier." Mr. Trump received millions of dollars in campaign contributions from coal company executives.


And, of course, with his even more consequential tariff policies, Donald Trump is on an even larger scale, an enemy of economic freedom more generally.
A couple of items, since you're wondering where the Trump supporters are:

1. Glenn Beck, for the LONGEST time was a Never Trumper. He probably still is. He lost his show at FoxNews because he came across as a crochety old tenured professor with that blackboard shtick. Some of his radio show is entertaining, but most of it is sanctimonious and self serving.

2. A reliable source has a slightly different story. (It's still along what you're saying but not as extreme.)
Trump's coal policy
The cumulative impact of all the White House’s steps so far, including this month’s formal repeal of the coal-crushing Clean Power Plan, has led to optimism in the coal industry and among Republicans on Capitol Hill. Although there has been some positive short-term signs — coal mining jobs and production have ticked up this year — analysts say Mr. Trump and Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Scott Pruitt, despite their best efforts, simply cannot ward off market forces that have been building for years.

“The reactions are limited. The potential of what the administration can do to tip the scales, it’s limited in scope,” said energy market analyst Dan Klein, managing director at Global Coal PIRA Energy Group, an analytics unit of S&P Global Platts.

“There’s not much President Trump could do to revive the industry because we have cheap natural gas,” Mr. Klein said. “New coal units are essentially off the table so the options are fairly small.”


The key is natural gas. (And I'm happy that I own some natural gas stock. The checks are getting bigger.)


3. From the article: In fact, research shows the administration’s fossil fuel-centric energy policy — which is focused not just on coal but also on revving up oil and gas production on federal lands and loosening restrictions on private land exploration — could have adverse effects on coal.

Where are you getting this delusion that this is an assault on the free market? It looks as if down the line the free market might decide coal is an obsolete source of energy, when compared to others. And I'm also curious about your thread. Are you upset that the coal industry may possibly be facing harder times due to the market? I thought you liberals HATED coal and wanted it gone. Or is this just another example of that continuing left wing KKK rally of hate against this President?

Novelist Michael Crichton once said that when the market decides, there will be a replacement for fossil fuels. There was no government regulation or mandates that took us from getting transportation fuel from several acres of hay for horses to wells of oil deep in the ground. And when the market is ready for alternatives, it will move quickly.

What President Trump has done is allow the market to work and the cost of energy has PLUMMETED. Gasoline prices are in free fall as America is now an official OIL EXPORTER.

And this is after all those IDIOTS in the Democrat Party handing our wallets to the extremists in the Middle East.
 
Jan 2016
54,716
51,258
Colorado
#28
A couple of items, since you're wondering where the Trump supporters are:

1. Glenn Beck, for the LONGEST time was a Never Trumper. He probably still is. He lost his show at FoxNews because he came across as a crochety old tenured professor with that blackboard shtick. Some of his radio show is entertaining, but most of it is sanctimonious and self serving.

2. A reliable source has a slightly different story. (It's still along what you're saying but not as extreme.)
Trump's coal policy
The cumulative impact of all the White House’s steps so far, including this month’s formal repeal of the coal-crushing Clean Power Plan, has led to optimism in the coal industry and among Republicans on Capitol Hill. Although there has been some positive short-term signs — coal mining jobs and production have ticked up this year — analysts say Mr. Trump and Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Scott Pruitt, despite their best efforts, simply cannot ward off market forces that have been building for years.

“The reactions are limited. The potential of what the administration can do to tip the scales, it’s limited in scope,” said energy market analyst Dan Klein, managing director at Global Coal PIRA Energy Group, an analytics unit of S&P Global Platts.

“There’s not much President Trump could do to revive the industry because we have cheap natural gas,” Mr. Klein said. “New coal units are essentially off the table so the options are fairly small.”


The key is natural gas. (And I'm happy that I own some natural gas stock. The checks are getting bigger.)

3. From the article: In fact, research shows the administration’s fossil fuel-centric energy policy — which is focused not just on coal but also on revving up oil and gas production on federal lands and loosening restrictions on private land exploration — could have adverse effects on coal.

Where are you getting this delusion that this is an assault on the free market? It looks as if down the line the free market might decide coal is an obsolete source of energy, when compared to others. And I'm also curious about your thread. Are you upset that the coal industry may possibly be facing harder times due to the market? I thought you liberals HATED coal and wanted it gone. Or is this just another example of that continuing left wing KKK rally of hate against this President?

Novelist Michael Crichton once said that when the market decides, there will be a replacement for fossil fuels. There was no government regulation or mandates that took us from getting transportation fuel from several acres of hay for horses to wells of oil deep in the ground. And when the market is ready for alternatives, it will move quickly.

What President Trump has done is allow the market to work and the cost of energy has PLUMMETED. Gasoline prices are in free fall as America is now an official OIL EXPORTER.

And this is after all those IDIOTS in the Democrat Party handing our wallets to the extremists in the Middle East.
You certainly don't read very well. You're asking "where are you getting this delusion that this is an assault on the free market?" Seriously?!???? Try reading this, AGAIN. Read it very SLOWLY, if necessary. Let the words SINK IN.

"Unprecedented government intervention in the energy markets to support high-cost generation will hurt consumers by taking more money out of their pockets rather than letting them keep more of what they earn," said Todd Snitchler of the American Petroleum Institute, the top lobbying group of the oil and gas industry. [So it is not just the renewable energy industry that finds this kind of support for the failing coal industry to be stupid policy!]

Forcing American taxpayers to bailout uneconomical power plants is an assault on free market principles, if there ever was one!
 
Likes: labrea
Nov 2015
6,418
2,092
UK
#29
Donald Trump is waging war on free markets in the energy sector. His brilliant plan, a perfect example of the kind of hare-brained centralized economic planning we used to see right out of the Kremlin in the 'glory' days of the sickly Soviet economy, is to force American consumers to pay higher energy prices, in order to subsidize and forcibly keep open, failing coal-fired power plants that would otherwise be going out of business:

Trump administration taking 'immediate steps' to try to stop closure of coal, nuclear power plants

Here is an interesting quote: "Unprecedented government intervention in the energy markets to support high-cost generation will hurt consumers by taking more money out of their pockets rather than letting them keep more of what they earn," said Todd Snitchler of the American Petroleum Institute, the top lobbying group of the oil and gas industry. [So it is not just the renewable energy industry that finds this kind of support for the failing coal industry to be stupid policy!]

Forcing American taxpayers to bailout uneconomical power plants is an assault on free market principles, if there ever was one!

The Wall Street Journal had a few more details in the Saturday edition. Malcolm Woolf oversees policy at Advanced Energy Economy, a trade group representing business consumers. He said: "The Administration's plan to federalize the electric power system is an exercise in crony capitalism taken solely for the benefit of a bankrupt power-plant owner and its coal supplier." Mr. Trump received millions of dollars in campaign contributions from coal company executives.

And, of course, with his even more consequential tariff policies, Donald Trump is on an even larger scale, an enemy of economic freedom more generally.
The alternative, as in the UK, is to pay high energy prices for engery generated by green methods.

Is it the price you're complaining about or the production means for the energy?