Elizabeth Warren claimed 'American Indian' race on State Bar of Texas registration card

Sep 2014
4,837
1,504
South FL
#91
Looking at the registration card and assuming its true. In this day and age, really who the hell knows, right? But assuming its true, first thing I would say is: Well, I guess Jeff Bezos doesn't like her proposed wealth tax! But aside from that, the registration card actually bolsters Warren's story. Her story is that she had always been told that she had Native American blood. In this context, when nobody was looking and when she had nothing to gain by making the assertion (she could have left it blank of course), she self identified as Native American. Of course a subsequent DNA test showed dilution of course, but even the fact she took the test and released such a diluted result tends to indicate that its more likely than not that she labored under a misapprehension about her own ethnicity.
 
Likes: BitterPill

Rasselas

Former Staff
Feb 2010
70,019
46,127
USA
#92
What is splitting hairs about asked exactly HOW her action "got her ahead" in response to a claim it did?
I don't think anyone has to prove an advantage was given, but that one was sought.
If the claim is REALLY about her making a false statement in an official form/document why are so many whining and moaining about it "getting her ahead' somehow?[/QUOTE]She must have thought it gave her an advantage of some sort. If not, why write it down on the form? Why not just go with the obvious?

For me the real problem here is that she said she didn't make a thing of this--but she obviously did.
 
Likes: bajisima

Rasselas

Former Staff
Feb 2010
70,019
46,127
USA
#93
Looking at the registration card and assuming its true. In this day and age, really who the hell knows, right? But assuming its true, first thing I would say is: Well, I guess Jeff Bezos doesn't like her proposed wealth tax! But aside from that, the registration card actually bolsters Warren's story. Her story is that she had always been told that she had Native American blood. In this context, when nobody was looking and when she had nothing to gain by making the assertion (she could have left it blank of course), she self identified as Native American. Of course a subsequent DNA test showed dilution of course, but even the fact she took the test and released such a diluted result tends to indicate that its more likely than not that she labored under a misapprehension about her own ethnicity.
No one can blame her for the misapprehension, but putting something like that on an application when one knows one is overwhelming white is just....odd.
 
Jul 2011
78,483
44,166
Memphis, Tn.
#95
I don't think anyone has to prove an advantage was given, but that one was sought.
If the claim is REALLY about her making a false statement in an official form/document why are so many whining and moaining about it "getting her ahead' somehow?
She must have thought it gave her an advantage of some sort. If not, why write it down on the form? Why not just go with the obvious?

For me the real problem here is that she said she didn't make a thing of this--but she obviously did.[/QUOTE]

Then I guess those people should learn to express themselves more clearly.
Quoting you now ...-"but she obviously did." Really? What was it, and how is it obvious?
 
Likes: KnotaFrayed

Rasselas

Former Staff
Feb 2010
70,019
46,127
USA
#96
She must have thought it gave her an advantage of some sort. If not, why write it down on the form? Why not just go with the obvious?

For me the real problem here is that she said she didn't make a thing of this--but she obviously did.

Then I guess those people should learn to express themselves more clearly.
Quoting you now ...-"but she obviously did." Really? What was it, and how is it obvious?
The Texas Bar card she signed. Her inclusion of a supposedly Native American recipe in an Oklahoma cookbook. It was a thing for her. She made much more of it than most other people who talk about the NA heritage they share, which they know about because some relative told them. There's a paper trail. It shows a pattern, and she didn't own up to it in the first place. What we've known to this point is what the Boston Globe uncovered several years ago. This is new. I didn't think this was important before, but this is going to be a tar baby for her.
 
Likes: Izzshemovin
Jan 2016
54,401
50,901
Colorado
#97
The Texas Bar card she signed. Her inclusion of a supposedly Native American recipe in an Oklahoma cookbook. It was a thing for her. She made much more of it than most other people who talk about the NA heritage they share, which they know about because some relative told them. There's a paper trail. It shows a pattern, and she didn't own up to it in the first place. What we've known to this point is what the Boston Globe uncovered several years ago. This is new. I didn't think this was important before, but this is going to be a tar baby for her.
A Donald Trump vs Elizabeth Warren Presidential race would be the ugliest and nastiest and most racially-tinged Presidential race in America's history. The racists would be coming out of the woodwork for that election. I think it would be a terrible thing for this country. And I think Elizabeth Warren would be a terrible choice of nominee for the Democratic Party. Having said that, I cringe each and every time Donald Trump refers to her as 'Pocahontas', and devoutly wish more of my fellow Americans did, as well.
 
Jun 2013
17,867
15,503
Here
#98
And????

What specific advantage or benefit did Elizabeth Warren derive from checking a box or claiming what she claimed, based on her family history and that her DNA test, did in fact, show (however small) Native American DNA?

Why do some people appear to NOT want to reveal more information and knowledge about this entire subject? Are they being dishonest or simply ingnorant? Why are they NOT making posts about Donald Trump's mocking use of one of the First People, to mock a political rival? How does Donald Trump remain the Teflon man while he and his supporters (and foreign trolls/shills) rake others over the coals, for doing no more and often a lot less, than he does, with regard to respect for others, including whatever it is, that defines "Native American".....In all of its defined and undefined ways?

Donald Trump challenged Elizabeth Warren to take a DNA test, no less than he challenged Barack Obama, another political opposition, to reveal his long form birth certificate. Both did what Trump challenged them to do. Both made Trump look like a fool (Trump never specified how much "Native American" DNA needed to show and according to the "rolls" of the Cherokee tribe, there are "members" of the tribe who had NO blood relation (and likely NO DNA relationship to those who would otherwise be deemed "Native American", by blood quantum or DNA test results.}} Elizabeth Warren's family may actually have more Cherokee DNA or "blood quantum" than those on the "rolls" the Cherokee use to determine membership in the tribe and may not have been on the rolls for any of several reasons, some explained below.


"Native American identity in the United States is an evolving topic based on the struggle to define "Native American" or "(American) Indian" both for people who consider themselves Native American and for people who do not. Some people seek an identity that will provide for a stable definition for legal, social, and personal purposes. There are a number of different factors which have been used to define "Indianness," and the source and potential use of the definition play a role in what definition is used. Facets which characterize "Indianness" include culture, society, genes/biology, law, and self-identity.[1] An important question is whether the definition should be dynamic and changeable across time and situation, or whether it is possible to define "Indianness" in a static way.[2] The dynamic definitions may be based in how Indians adapt and adjust to dominant society, which may be called an "oppositional process" by which the boundaries between Indians and the dominant groups are maintained. Another reason for dynamic definitions is the process of "ethnogenesis", which is the process by which the ethnic identity of the group is developed and renewed as social organizations and cultures evolve.[2] The question of identity, especially aboriginal identity, is common in many societies worldwide.[2] "
Native American identity in the United States - Wikipedia


"Blood quantum laws or Indian blood laws are those enacted in the United States and the former Thirteen colonies to define qualification by ancestry as Native American, sometimes in relation to tribal membership. These laws were developed by European Americans and thus did not necessarily reflect how Native Americans had traditionally identified themselves or members of their in-group, and thus ignored the Native American practices of absorbing other peoples by adoption, beginning with other Native Americans, and extending to children and young adults of European and African ancestry. Blood quantum laws also ignored tribal cultural continuity after tribes had absorbed such adoptees and multiracial children. Tribal enrollments were often incomplete or inaccurate for multiple reasons; individuals didn't trust the government and so they refused to enroll, families relocated before censuses were taken, or individuals were incorrectly identified by white men, whom were the census takers."
Blood quantum laws - Wikipedia

"Your Cherokee grandmother is missing from the rolls? Maybe not. Here’s why."
"Before we get to your grandmother, let’s talk about who and what is a Cherokee. Do you know that there were white people that the tribe loved so much that they made them tribal members? The tribe included intermarried whites, freed slaves, and members of other tribes like the Shawnee and Delaware. When we say “Cherokee Nation” that’s exactly what it is, a sovereign nation. It’s members are citizens of that nation and Cherokee is their nationality. As citizens they are “100% Cherokee” in the same way that you may be 100% American and citizen of the United States, even though racially you may have a mixture of ancestors. The Cherokee Nation doesn’t require a blood quantum for citizenship anymore than the United States does. However, some citizens are “full blood” Cherokee Indians (yes Indian). They are referred to as full bloods rather than “100% Cherokee”. The Bureau of Indian Affairs lists 4/4 on their Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood (CDIB) card. Blood quantum is erroneous, created and assigned by a government with an interest in having the lowest possible blood quantum listed for tribal members."
Your Cherokee grandmother is missing from the rolls? Maybe not. Here’s why.

What Donald Trump and his supporters do NOT want Americans to hear about:

"Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians chief voices support for Elizabeth Warren after she sparked controversy for taking a DNA test to prove her Native American ancestry"
Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians chief voices support for Elizabeth Warren after she sparked controversy for taking a DNA test to prove her Native American ancestry


"EASTERN BAND OF CHEROKEE CHIEF: SEN. WARREN DOES NOT CLAIM TRIBAL CITIZENRY; ONLY TRIBAL ANCESTRY"
Eastern Band of Cherokee Chief: Sen. Warren Does Not Claim Tribal Citizenry; Only Tribal Ancestry

Anyone here have recordings of the conversations her parents and relatives had, regarding their heritage and any relationship to it being "Native American"? How are people determining what any of this meant, to Elizabeth Warren, when confronted with anything that posed the question of "Native American" identity? Did any or all forms she filled out define what checking or not checking the box would mean or entail? If not, then how does ANYONE know what, if any, "advantage" or benefit she received was? How would she know? If Elizabeth Warren might be guilty of anything, it might be not asking or researching what checking the "Native American" box or claiming it, meant, with regard to any job or why the question would be asked? Unless one is looking for some further application of specific advantages or benefits, people should NOT be asked what their race or ethnicity, gender, religion, who they love, etc. is, beyond census data gathering for demographic statistics. If there is some advantage or benefit in checking any box or claiming any race, ethnicity, heritage, religion, etc. it should be clearly disclosed and there should be further documentation requirements, especially where something like skin color is NOT a more obvious defining factor. For example, is Barack Obama, white or black, when his mother was white, his father black? He is assumed to be "black", is he not? And this with it being common knowledge that his mother was white.

"The Trail of Tears" began where and ended for many Cherokees, where?
Oklahoma has politically, voted for what party? Is it possible that even amongst the First People, there are political divides?
Politics of Oklahoma - Wikipedia

How many here have taken any sort of DNA test?

How many of those who have taken the test, show ANY DNA relationship to "Native American" DNA, in the ways that is specifically defined?

Worse than any "lying" Elizabeth Warren MIGHT be guilty of, are those who are lying about her and either lying, not discussing or ignorant about the specifics of "Native American identity" and the various means by which there are any measurements of it.
 
Last edited:
Likes: Hollywood

Rasselas

Former Staff
Feb 2010
70,019
46,127
USA
#99
A Donald Trump vs Elizabeth Warren Presidential race would be the ugliest and nastiest and most racially-tinged Presidential race in America's history. The racists would be coming out of the woodwork for that election. I think it would be a terrible thing for this country. And I think Elizabeth Warren would be a terrible choice of nominee for the Democratic Party. Having said that, I cringe each and every time Donald Trump refers to her as 'Pocahontas', and devoutly wish more of my fellow Americans did, as well.
The Pocahontas thing is offensive in its own right, for reasons that have nothing to do with Warren.