'Eroded' U.S. Military Could Lose War Against Russia Or China

Chief

Former Staff
Nov 2009
31,997
19,121
SoCal
#61
You know, Chief, I betcha some of our invading GI's had visions of 'Midnight at the Oasis' dancing in their heads as they pulled into sultry and legendary Baghdad:


I betcha they were imagining nubile young Arab girls in veils, welcoming them into their tents with beckoning fingers and wicked smiles......

If ONLY we hadn't raised that damn American flag!!
Sadly the US along with many other nations have been raising flags around the middle east for like the last 100 years. Who knows what it could have been like... maybe hot Arabs for everyone! (Let's not leave out the females here!)



Here is a school in Afghanistan, circa 1960... They were working on modernizing. It was not all the fault of outside forces that all this came apart, but we did not help when we dropped like $1B into Afghanistan in weapons and cash in our proxy war against the USSR and effectively created the Taliban.
 

Chief

Former Staff
Nov 2009
31,997
19,121
SoCal
#62
Sadly the US along with many other nations have been raising flags around the middle east for like the last 100 years. Who knows what it could have been like... maybe hot Arabs for everyone! (Let's not leave out the females here!)



Here is a school in Afghanistan, circa 1960... They were working on modernizing. It was not all the fault of outside forces that all this came apart, but we did not help when we dropped like $1B into Afghanistan in weapons and cash in our proxy war against the USSR and effectively created the Taliban.
@The Man

This makes me think... I wonder how things would have been if we came out on the side of the USSR in Afghanistan instead. Initially, they were really protecting their investment. They had invested 3x as much as anyone else, building roads and infrastructure... so they had a reason to try to suppress the civil war. If the US had sided with them, Afghanistan probably would have continued to modernize, and also maybe relations between the US and the USSR could have improved earlier.
 
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The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
44,581
31,143
Toronto
#63
@The Man

This makes me think... I wonder how things would have been if we came out on the side of the USSR in Afghanistan instead. Initially, they were really protecting their investment. They had invested 3x as much as anyone else, building roads and infrastructure... so they had a reason to try to suppress the civil war. If the US had sided with them, Afghanistan probably would have continued to modernize, and also maybe relations between the US and the USSR could have improved earlier.
I don't know. My dad, one of my uncles, and a whole bunch of their friends all were there back then. None of them can even coherently explain now what the fuck they fought for... Totally pointless war IMHO

Like for US in Vietnam before. Or like Bush's Iraq invasion in 2003.

Basically, from what I understand, the Soviet leadership saw the Islamic Revolution in Iran, and worried that Afghan was going the same way; and, perhaps, also fretted that if that happens, it may inspire similar unrest in the Muslim republics of Central Asia that were then part of USSR too.

Really, it was all about the KGB. Andropov made that decision. Brezhnev, by '79, was old and senile. He was no longer really in charge of anything...
 

Chief

Former Staff
Nov 2009
31,997
19,121
SoCal
#64
I don't know. My dad, one of my uncles, and a whole bunch of their friends all were there back then. None of them can even coherently explain now what the fuck they fought for... Totally pointless war IMHO

Like for US in Vietnam before. Or like Bush's Iraq invasion in 2003.

Basically, from what I understand, the Soviet leadership saw the Islamic Revolution in Iran, and worried that Afghan was going the same way; and, perhaps, also fretted that if that happens, it may inspire similar unrest in the Muslim republics of Central Asia that were then part of USSR too.

Really, it was all about the KGB. Andropov made that decision. Brezhnev, by '79, was old and senile. He was no longer really in charge of anything...
They have natural gas in abundance, as well as gold, copper, lithium, and iron mines. They actually are one of the richest mining sites in the world. The USSR was probably banking on that when they gave them so much. Then internally, there was a struggle, where some wanted the reforms to go much faster, and that caused the east to rebel, with the backing of Pakistan. The USSR probably wouldn't have had any trouble protecting the government, if the US had not backed the Islamists.

I think we really bet wrong in the Mideast, over and over, for decades now.
 
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Jan 2016
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Colorado
#65
They have natural gas in abundance, as well as gold, copper, lithium, and iron mines. They actually are one of the richest mining sites in the world. The USSR was probably banking on that when they gave them so much. Then internally, there was a struggle, where some wanted the reforms to go much faster, and that caused the east to rebel, with the backing of Pakistan. The USSR probably wouldn't have had any trouble protecting the government, if the US had not backed the Islamists.

I think we really bet wrong in the Mideast, over and over, for decades now.
In Afghanistan, WMDs stands for Widespread Mineral Deposits.

When the Soviet Union moved its military into Afghanistan in 1979, the West interpreted it as a blatant attempt to grow the Soviet Empire, and the assumption was that Afghanistan was intended to simply become the next Soviet Socialist Republic. The context of the times must be remembered: the Soviet Union under Brezhnev had been fomenting Marxist revolutions in Central America, too. The policy of détente could no longer be supported by any reasonable person after the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan. Jimmy Carter was burdened with the appearance of being naïve about Soviet intentions, and this was a major factor in Reagan's 1980 victory, as history records......
 
Jan 2016
50,039
45,998
Colorado
#66
Sadly the US along with many other nations have been raising flags around the middle east for like the last 100 years. Who knows what it could have been like... maybe hot Arabs for everyone! (Let's not leave out the females here!)



Here is a school in Afghanistan, circa 1960... They were working on modernizing. It was not all the fault of outside forces that all this came apart, but we did not help when we dropped like $1B into Afghanistan in weapons and cash in our proxy war against the USSR and effectively created the Taliban.
After we succeeded in forcing the Soviets/Russians to abandon Afghanistan, Americans patted ourselves on the backs, said 'Job well done!', and we abandoned Afghanistan, and forgot all about it......until 9/11.

But there were SOME of us who were watching what was going on in that troubled country during the 1990's, and watched the rise of the Taliban, and observed as they blew up world heritage sites with enormous statues of the Buddha, and winced as they whipped and flogged women in public. And some of us KNEW that nothing good was going to come of the Taliban being in power in Afghanistan, and that we should NOT have left a power vacuum in Afghanistan for them to fill.....
 
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Dec 2018
2,759
1,017
Florida
#67
Hm. No war would happen openly. Economic conflict is what IS happening (and China is good at it). A shooting war? Nuclear weapons would get involved. Maybe something small scale might happen. Along the lines of aircraft getting shot down or other minor conflict that can be squelched.
 
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Mar 2015
2,673
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Minnesota
#68
This is ridiculous ,The united states and its allies spen 3 out of every 4 dollars on military in this world, there is no dept were either country or both together could win with.Has anyone ever heard of the big bang , yup this will be the reversal of the last one. It will never happen and if it did it wouldn't matter anyway would it?
 
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Mar 2015
2,673
851
Minnesota
#69
After we succeeded in forcing the Soviets/Russians to abandon Afghanistan, Americans patted ourselves on the backs, said 'Job well done!', and we abandoned Afghanistan, and forgot all about it......until 9/11.

But there were SOME of us who were watching what was going on in that troubled country during the 1990's, and watched the rise of the Taliban, and observed as they blew up world heritage sites with enormous statues of the Buddha, and winced as they whipped and flogged women in public. And some of us KNEW that nothing good was going to come of the Taliban being in power in Afghanistan, and that we should NOT have left a power vacuum in Afghanistan for them to fill.....
Tell me how we could ever leave that country, we couldn't and we gain little. The More we throw at the terrorist the more the population hates us.
 
Mar 2015
2,673
851
Minnesota
#70
hell we haven't had a war that we should have fought since the second WW and there has only been three or four that we should have gotten involved with in the first place. All the rest just made big money for someone. Corporate wars they are called .
 
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