"Ethnic diversity harms a country's social trust"?

Jul 2011
47,017
34,470
Toronto
#11
It's not the DNA makeup or ethnicity that's a problem, it's when you try to merge and integrate people that have no similar values, worldviews and belief system.
Sure, it can be complicated and difficult. Some countries try to manage their minorities through brute repression (China - Uighurs; India - Kashmiris; Indonesia - Papuas). Others mix repression for SOME more troublesome members of the minority with perks and rewards for more loyal and obedient ones, divide and conquer (Russia - Chechens; Crimean Tatars; etc).

Even in the West, some also employ repressive tactics, look at France, banning Muslim women from wearing their traditional dress, et al.

My point here is that, often, it's not just a bad minority failing to integrate into majority society; but that society and it's government themselves pushing the minority away and alienating them.

Sure, for those countries, like in Scandinavia, who didn't really have indigenous minorities to begin with, there may indeed be a earning to just avoid creating this additional complexity in their demography in first place, but cutting off immigration.

But, as I argued before, with their low birth rates, all European countries need immigration to renew and sustain and support themselves...
 
Jul 2011
47,017
34,470
Toronto
#13
To OP.

That shows how absurd this PC thinking gets, when it's not a discussion of whether the article is factually right or wrong, but whether it might hurt people's feelings.
I will say this, I was shocked to see an article like this in Vancouver Sun, of all the papers... lol

If it was, say, National Post, wouldn't have surprised me. But the Sun???
 
Oct 2014
33,166
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C-A-N-A-D-A-Eh
#14
I will say this, I was shocked to see an article like this in Vancouver Sun, of all the papers... lol

If it was, say, National Post, wouldn't have surprised me. But the Sun???
The western separatist movement is growing, that's the closest I've seen to MSM coverage.

Facts are critical, if we can't examine facts objectively, we might as well just give up on society.
 
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Aug 2018
3,197
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Vancouver
#15
It's not the DNA makeup or ethnicity that's a problem, it's when you try to merge and integrate people that have no similar values, worldviews and belief system.
If you merged and integrated those people into an empty power vacuum you'd definitely have trouble.

If you took 20 Canadians and 20 Syrians and put them on a deserted island - I think within a week one group would be dead.

That's not what's happening.

You're taking a sampling of every culture on earth on dropping it into a rock-solid, established society based on the rule of law.

And that won't change.

So there's no debate. None. There's no "two sides" in conflict.

Newcomers, like my wife. Can keep their culture, their language, their religion, their private schools, their insular opinions. All of it. God bless.

But they'll follow the law. Period. End of discussion.

And things will go very hard for them if they think their religion or prejudices matter to the law. Gonna be some visits from the Ministry of Children and Families for starters.

I don't know who wrote this article but I'd bet my last dollar he lives somewhere in the boonies with, like, two immigrant families in it.

If he lived in Vancouver or Toronto or Montreal where the actual immigrants are he'd have better things to do with his time. And he'd also have a proofreader named "Sanjay Grewal" and an editor named "Ming Lee" that he had to submit his article through - haha.
 
Jul 2011
47,017
34,470
Toronto
#16
If you merged and integrated those people into an empty power vacuum you'd definitely have trouble.

If you took 20 Canadians and 20 Syrians and put them on a deserted island - I think within a week one group would be dead.

That's not what's happening.

You're taking a sampling of every culture on earth on dropping it into a rock-solid, established society based on the rule of law.

And that won't change.

So there's no debate. None. There's no "two sides" in conflict.

Newcomers, like my wife. Can keep their culture, their language, their religion, their private schools, their insular opinions. All of it. God bless.

But they'll follow the law. Period. End of discussion.

And things will go very hard for them if they think their religion or prejudices matter to the law. Gonna be some visits from the Ministry of Children and Families for starters.

I don't know who wrote this article but I'd bet my last dollar he lives somewhere in the boonies with, like, two immigrant families in it.

If he lived in Vancouver or Toronto or Montreal where the actual immigrants are he'd have better things to do with his time. And he'd also have a proofreader named "Sanjay Grewal" and an editor named "Ming Lee" that he had to submit his article through - haha.
That's why i am so surprised this was published in Vancouver Sun! lol

Anyway, this is the guy, apparently: Home
 
Oct 2014
33,166
6,066
C-A-N-A-D-A-Eh
#17
If you merged and integrated those people into an empty power vacuum you'd definitely have trouble.

If you took 20 Canadians and 20 Syrians and put them on a deserted island - I think within a week one group would be dead.

That's not what's happening.
In that specific situation, either the Muslims would be dead or the rest would be dead or converted. That's not what's happening, agreed.

You're taking a sampling of every culture on earth on dropping it into a rock-solid, established society based on the rule of law.

And that won't change.

So there's no debate. None. There's no "two sides" in conflict.

Newcomers, like my wife. Can keep their culture, their language, their religion, their private schools, their insular opinions. All of it. God bless.

But they'll follow the law. Period. End of discussion.
In Canada, there is that established rule of law, Islam has a religious doctrine of conquest, the process has been repeated numerous times. It's like a recipe, it happens that because of the territory, it's more likely to be a region by region conversion. If the trend continues.

Other cultures, Asian, European, Indian, each have more compatible belief sets that make it easier to integrate. Even though Canada as a whole tends towards ghettoized areas, not enforced, but de facto. Individual Muslims, that doesn't concern me, the group cultural beliefs that lead to certain issues to a greater degree than with other cultures.

I'm also not talking about superiority or bigotry or racism, I can show the data that I, talking about.

And things will go very hard for them if they think their religion or prejudices matter to the law. Gonna be some visits from the Ministry of Children and Families for starters.

I don't know who wrote this article but I'd bet my last dollar he lives somewhere in the boonies with, like, two immigrant families in it.

If he lived in Vancouver or Toronto or Montreal where the actual immigrants are he'd have better things to do with his time. And he'd also have a proofreader named "Sanjay Grewal" and an editor named "Ming Lee" that he had to submit his article through - haha.
Islam has a process, the reason the world is not Muslim is because; the crusades as a response to hundreds of years of incursions and skirmishes, Vlad the Impaler who forced invaders to walk past their comrades hanging from posts the whole way, and the Sikhs whose entire purpose was to fight back against Muslim incursions.

That has no bearing on how I view any individual, but it is historical facts that premise the argument.
 
Jul 2011
47,017
34,470
Toronto
#18
In that specific situation, either the Muslims would be dead or the rest would be dead or converted. That's not what's happening, agreed.



In Canada, there is that established rule of law, Islam has a religious doctrine of conquest, the process has been repeated numerous times. It's like a recipe, it happens that because of the territory, it's more likely to be a region by region conversion. If the trend continues.

Other cultures, Asian, European, Indian, each have more compatible belief sets that make it easier to integrate. Even though Canada as a whole tends towards ghettoized areas, not enforced, but de facto. Individual Muslims, that doesn't concern me, the group cultural beliefs that lead to certain issues to a greater degree than with other cultures.

I'm also not talking about superiority or bigotry or racism, I can show the data that I, talking about.



Islam has a process, the reason the world is not Muslim is because; the crusades as a response to hundreds of years of incursions and skirmishes, Vlad the Impaler who forced invaders to walk past their comrades hanging from posts the whole way, and the Sikhs whose entire purpose was to fight back against Muslim incursions.

That has no bearing on how I view any individual, but it is historical facts that premise the argument.
My dad's Cossack ancestors were once settled over there, in Southern Russia, for similar reason: to protect nearby communities from raids by Muslim tribes from Caucasus Mountains, especially the Vaynakhi (Chechens).

That said, if your theory about Islam actually was true, they would have converted anyone they ruled, all of them.

Yet, Russia was for centuries dominated by Muslim Tatars. India was ruled by the Mughals. Spain spent much time also under the Moors. In none of these places did these Muslim overlords destroy the original culture.

In fact, in the case of the Tatars, some of them actually took up Russian Orthodox Christianity, even one of their Khans converted, after a Russian Orthodox priest cured his wife of some awful disease, or so goes the legend, anyway


That's why today, there are communities of Kerasheny (literally Christian or Baptized Tatars) in modern Russia

:)

Nah, my friend. Religions aren't as monolithic as you seem to believe. It's all about individual culture and choices of individual nations and even human beings.
 
Last edited:
Aug 2018
3,197
5,151
Vancouver
#19
In that specific situation, either the Muslims would be dead or the rest would be dead or converted. That's not what's happening, agreed.



In Canada, there is that established rule of law, Islam has a religious doctrine of conquest, the process has been repeated numerous times. It's like a recipe, it happens that because of the territory, it's more likely to be a region by region conversion. If the trend continues.

Other cultures, Asian, European, Indian, each have more compatible belief sets that make it easier to integrate. Even though Canada as a whole tends towards ghettoized areas, not enforced, but de facto. Individual Muslims, that doesn't concern me, the group cultural beliefs that lead to certain issues to a greater degree than with other cultures.

I'm also not talking about superiority or bigotry or racism, I can show the data that I, talking about.



Islam has a process, the reason the world is not Muslim is because; the crusades as a response to hundreds of years of incursions and skirmishes, Vlad the Impaler who forced invaders to walk past their comrades hanging from posts the whole way, and the Sikhs whose entire purpose was to fight back against Muslim incursions.

That has no bearing on how I view any individual, but it is historical facts that premise the argument.
Islam certainly has a history of conquest. Second. Perhaps, only to Europeans. I don't think the crusades was a response to anything external. They were simply the result of Christendom needing something to do with a society built on a warrior class other than constantly fighting each other. They needed non-christians to fight so they'd stop fighting each other.

But I don't think these conquering traits are unique to Romans or Christians or Muslims or Germanics. I think they were just the most successful.

I've never met or heard of a single Canadian converting to Islam. After half a century of open immigration.
 
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Oct 2014
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C-A-N-A-D-A-Eh
#20
My dad's Cossack ancestors were once settled over there, in Southern Russia, for similar reason: to protect nearby communities from raids by Muslim tribes from Caucasus Mountains, especially the Vaynakhi (Chechens).

That said, if your theory about Islam actually was true, they would have converted anyone they ruled, all of them.

Yet, Russia was for centuries dominated by Muslim Tatars. India was ruled by the Mughals. Spain spent much time also under the Moors. In none of these places did these Muslim overlords destroy the original culture.

In fact, in the case of the Tatars, some of them actually took up Russian Orthodox Christianity, even one of their Khans converted, after a Russian Orthodox priest cured his wife of some awful disease, or so goes the legend, anyway


That's why today, there are communities of Kerasheny (literally Christian or Baptized Tatars) in modern Russia

:)

Nah, my friend. Religions aren't as monolithic as you seem to believe. It's all about individual culture and choices of individual nations and even human beings.
The full picture is much more complex than I really explained. I omitted Africa and China because of the complexities.

Generally, it's more an issue of control. Once there's control of regions, the prescription is for, in short, a tolerance tax. You pay the tax (overtly or covertly) for tolerance.

I know it's not monolithic beliefs, different sects have different traits, not much different to how Mennonites and Catholics are essentially the same, the interpretations are different and has different cultural effects.
 
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