Flashback: When Obama told out-of-work miners to learn to code…

HCProf

Council Hall
Sep 2014
29,165
18,656
USA
Wow who knew telling people who work in an increasingly obsolete industry it is a good idea to learn a modern skill would trigger so many people
It triggers the people who depend on the retirement and a good salary. You are young...you can start over. Consider a person who is 55 with only a few more years to go before they can retire. They lose their insurance, jobs are difficult to obtain at that age...even with training and the Union retirement they depended on will be significantly reduced. These people paid taxes their entire life, worked like dogs to provide energy for the Country. How would you feel...when you are 55 years old and the government decides what you do is a waste of money and jerks the rug out from under you...after you worked your entire life, paid significant taxes, and tells you basically to fuck off. That is what happened to the coal miners. We could have least offered them Medicare at 55, instead half the Country mocked them. We are trillions in debt as a Nation and at the same time, destroying the older middle class. Who do you think pays for the safety nets in this Country...the people who earn over 60K a year....not jobs that pay under 30K and that is what replaced the wages for these miners.

Just because a person disagrees with the atrocities that have happened to the working class isn't an automatic "Oh they are triggered" That is something an elitist would say.
 

HayJenn

Moderator
Jul 2014
71,129
61,554
CA
I know facts are a pesky thing, but here you go

It’s been two years since President Donald Trump took office and began rolling back environmental regulations on the coal industry.At a November rally in Huntington, West Virginia, the president took credit for a coal comeback in front of a cheering crowd. “We’ve ended the war on beautiful, clean coal and we’re putting our coal miners back to work,” he said. “That you know better than anybody.”

But federal data about the industry tell a different story. Mine operators and independent contractors are required to report regular employment information to the Department of Labor’s Mine Safety and Health Administration, or MSHA. Preliminary figures for 2018 show 80,778 people were employed by mine operators and contractors. That’s a record low, and about a thousand fewer than were employed by coal in the last year of the Obama administration.


Nationwide, coal plant retirements neared a record high, and overall coal production dropped to the lowest level in nearly 40 years, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, a non-partisan government agency that tracks energy trends.

In the Ohio Valley, things looked much the same. In 2018 two prominent Ohio Valley utilities announced a spate of coal power plant closures, federal data show the region lost 150 industry jobs, and Westmoreland Coal, which has a substantial presence in Ohio, declared bankruptcy.


Coal Comeback? Coal At New Low After Two Years Under Trump
 
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Lunchboxxy

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Apr 2010
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It triggers the people who depend on the retirement and a good salary. You are young...you can start over. Consider a person who is 55 with only a few more years to go before they can retire. They lose their insurance, jobs are difficult to obtain at that age...even with training and the Union retirement they depended on will be significantly reduced. These people paid taxes their entire life, worked like dogs to provide energy for the Country. How would you feel...when you are 55 years old and the government decides what you do is a waste of money and jerks the rug out from under you...after you worked your entire life, paid significant taxes, and tells you basically to fuck off. That is what happened to the coal miners. We could have least offered them Medicare at 55, instead half the Country mocked them. We are trillions in debt as a Nation and at the same time, destroying the older middle class. Who do you think pays for the safety nets in this Country...the people who earn over 60K a year....not jobs that pay under 30K and that is what replaced the wages for these miners.

Just because a person disagrees with the atrocities that have happened to the working class isn't an automatic "Oh they are triggered" That is something an elitist would say.
The OP was certainly triggered. He intentionally misrepresented what Obama said as an excuse to whine about him being an elitist.

This argument makes less than no sense. Thanks for being condescending though. I don’t know what us poor youths would do without people like you telling us we are elitists for using common sense.

Is the answer to just pout and whine? Complain that life isn’t fair? Mining jobs have been declining for decades. It’s not like this is some sudden realization. People still chose to work in that industry. The government isn’t “pulling the rug” out of these industries.


You think people should just get benefits early because they work in an obsolete industry? Seriously? And the older generation has the fucking balls to trash millennials for not wanting to be crushed by student debt and low paying, high skilled jobs. But I digress.


I don’t know how it works because people in my generation don’t have the luxury of having real benefits at their jobs, but I assume if someone has been working like you described they have some sort of retirement package. I dont think they will be losing all their 401k savings or whatever. As for insurance, so what? Why are miners special compared to everyone else? They can do what the rest of us plebs do to get insurance. Republicans have deided that health care is my a right after all.

Anyway, what’s the alternative? Artificially prop up an industry so miners don’t have to do something else? Obama didn’t say fuck off and code. He pointed out how a community decided to learn to code as a way to combat the job losses. Unemployment is insanely low right now. There are plenty of jobs to go around if they don’t want to learn a brand new skill in a new industry. There’s lots of manual labor jobs where decades of experience will get you a good paying job. Obama was simply sharing a story about a group of people who decided to learn a modern skill in the modern world.

The decline in mining and manufacturing isn’t an atrocity. That’s ridiculous. It’s a natural progression of technology and industrialization. Horrible things have happened to the working class, the loss of mining jobs isn’t one of them. You have to change with the times. It’s always been like that throughout all of human history. Industries become obsolete and new industries take their place.

Otherwise we would still be propping up horse carriage drivers saying it’s not fair that there aren’t any horse carriage jobs now that we have so many cars.
 
Last edited:

HCProf

Council Hall
Sep 2014
29,165
18,656
USA
I know facts are a pesky thing, but here you go

It’s been two years since President Donald Trump took office and began rolling back environmental regulations on the coal industry.At a November rally in Huntington, West Virginia, the president took credit for a coal comeback in front of a cheering crowd. “We’ve ended the war on beautiful, clean coal and we’re putting our coal miners back to work,” he said. “That you know better than anybody.”

But federal data about the industry tell a different story. Mine operators and independent contractors are required to report regular employment information to the Department of Labor’s Mine Safety and Health Administration, or MSHA. Preliminary figures for 2018 show 80,778 people were employed by mine operators and contractors. That’s a record low, and about a thousand fewer than were employed by coal in the last year of the Obama administration.


Nationwide, coal plant retirements neared a record high, and overall coal production dropped to the lowest level in nearly 40 years, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, a non-partisan government agency that tracks energy trends.

In the Ohio Valley, things looked much the same. In 2018 two prominent Ohio Valley utilities announced a spate of coal power plant closures, federal data show the region lost 150 industry jobs, and Westmoreland Coal, which has a substantial presence in Ohio, declared bankruptcy.


Coal Comeback? Coal At New Low After Two Years Under Trump
I think this depends on what article you read. My cousin works for a very large mine owned by a energy company and he just added a third shift and brought back most of the miners his mine laid off over recent years. He says that most of the coal is exported to other Countries instead of consumed in the US.

My mine concern...which affects the Country as a whole. How are we going to replace the tax base that results from a 60K a year job? A replacement job that pays under 30K will never provide the safety net that the US depends on. I saw the same thing happen to the auto workers. Amazon opened a facility close to where my family lives in Kentucky and a lot of displaced miners and other workers who lost jobs connected to the coal industry were hired there...but at 11.00 per hour. Other than taxing the 1% at 90%...what is the realistic plan to fund the safety nets in the US? Do we even have a plan at this point?
 

HayJenn

Moderator
Jul 2014
71,129
61,554
CA
I think this depends on what article you read. My cousin works for a very large mine owned by a energy company and he just added a third shift and brought back most of the miners his mine laid off over recent years. He says that most of the coal is exported to other Countries instead of consumed in the US.

My mine concern...which affects the Country as a whole. How are we going to replace the tax base that results from a 60K a year job? A replacement job that pays under 30K will never provide the safety net that the US depends on. I saw the same thing happen to the auto workers. Amazon opened a facility close to where my family lives in Kentucky and a lot of displaced miners and other workers who lost jobs connected to the coal industry were hired there...but at 11.00 per hour. Other than taxing the 1% at 90%...what is the realistic plan to fund the safety nets in the US? Do we even have a plan at this point?
The promise with that premise is that coal jobs are just not expanding, but actually shrinking for the most part. And have been for awhile

Experts in the industry have already pointed out, repeatedly, that the coal jobs are extremely unlikely to come back. The plight of the coal industry is more a function of changing energy markets and increased demand for natural gas than anything else. The chief executive of the nation's largest privately held coal operation told the Guardian earlier this monththat Trump “can't bring back.”

Another largely overlooked point about coal jobs is that there just aren't that many of them relative to other industries. There are various estimates of coal-sector employment, but according to the Census Bureau's County Business Patterns program, which allows for detailed comparisons with many other industries, the coal industry employed 76,572 people in 2014, the latest year for which data is available.

That number includes not just miners but also office workers, sales staff and all of the other individuals who work at coal-mining companies.

Although 76,000 might seem like a large number, consider that similar numbers of people are employed by, say, the bowling (69,088) and skiing (75,036) industries. Other dwindling industries, such as travel agencies (99,888 people), employ considerably more. Used-car dealerships provide 138,000 jobs. Theme parks provide nearly 144,000. Carwash employment tops 150,000.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/03/31/8-surprisingly-small-industries-that-employ-more-people-than-coal/?utm_term=.339aa894dbe3

I personally, would like to see money put in to re-train coal workers for the renewable jobs - just like Hillary proposed when she was running for office. But of course her comments were yet again, taken WAY out of context


In her response, Clinton did say that she would be putting coal companies out of business, as a result of moving toward renewable energy sources. But she followed that by saying she wanted to create new economic opportunities for current coal workers, possibly spurred by clean energy development.


Look, we have serious economic problems in many parts of our country. And Roland is absolutely right. Instead of dividing people the way Donald Trump does, let's reunite around policies that will bring jobs and opportunities to all these underserved poor communities. So for example, I'm the only candidate which has a policy about how to bring economic opportunity using clean renewable energy as the key into coal country. Because we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business, right?

And we're going to make it clear that we don't want to forget those people. Those people labored in those mines for generations, losing their health, often losing their lives to turn on our lights and power our factories.

Now we've got to move away from coal and all the other fossil fuels, but I don't want to move away from the people who did the best they could to produce the energy that we relied on.

In context: Hillary Clinton’s comments about coal jobs
 
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HCProf

Council Hall
Sep 2014
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USA
The OP was certainly triggered. He intentionally misrepresented what Obama said as an excuse to whine about him being an elitist.

This argument makes less than no sense. Thanks for being condescending though. I don’t know what us poor youths would do without people like you telling us we are elitists for using common sense.

Is the answer to just pout and whine? Complain that life isn’t fair? Mining jobs have been declining for decades. It’s not like this is some sudden realization. People still chose to work in that industry. The government isn’t “pulling the rug” out of these industries.


You think people should just get benefits early because they work in an obsolete industry? Seriously? And the older generation has the fucking balls to trash millennials for not wanting to be crushed by student debt and low paying, high skilled jobs. But I digress.


I don’t know how it works because people in my generation don’t have the luxury of having real benefits at their jobs, but I assume if someone has been working like you described they have some sort of retirement package. I dont think they will be losing all their 401k savings or whatever. As for insurance, so what? Why are miners special compared to everyone else? They can do what the rest of us plebs do to get insurance. Republicans have deided that health care is my a right after all.

Anyway, what’s the alternative? Artificially prop up an industry so miners don’t have to do something else? Obama didn’t say fuck off and code. He pointed out how a community decided to learn to code as a way to combat the job losses. Unemployment is insanely low right now. There are plenty of jobs to go around if they don’t want to learn a brand new skill in a new industry. There’s lots of manual labor jobs where decades of experience will get you a good paying job. Obama was simply sharing a story about a group of people who decided to learn a modern skill in the modern world.

The decline in mining and manufacturing isn’t an atrocity. That’s ridiculous. It’s a natural progression of technology and industrialization. Horrible things have happened to the working class, the loss of mining jobs isn’t one of them. You have to change with the times. It’s always been like that throughout all of human history. Industries become obsolete and new industries take their place.

Otherwise we would still be propping up horse carriage drivers saying it’s not fair that there aren’t any horse carriage jobs now that we have so many cars.
Have you ever visited Appalacia? There aren't any jobs to train for. Do you honestly think everyone is going to get a 60K coding job? The kids of my cousins are from your generation and they are doing quite well...thanks to their Fathers who worked 7 days a week in a filthy mine so they would not have to. Two of them went to college for nursing...one of them is a nurse NP, two of them are teachers, and one is in Med school training to be a family practice doctor. You do have to change with the times...the ones I am talking about are over 50, and with children and grandchildren. Southern people do not hang their kids out to dry and sacrifice to ensure their kids do better than the generation before them. None of their kids have student loans.

I think at the tail end of the industry, the job loss was rapid where prior due to automation, it was a slow decline to allow people to prepare. My question, since the working class has eroded, where will we replace the tax dollars that was lost so we can maintain the ever growing safety net? A salary in the 20,000 range isn't going to cut it.
 

Blues63

Moderator
Dec 2014
14,460
12,234
Mustafa
Also, I’d like to point out that this is a very weird mischaracterization of what Obama actually said.

He didn’t tell out of work miners they should just learn to code. In a single paragraph of an essay on resilience in rural America, Obama mentioned miners who are learning to code.

So we’re making progress — progress that’s possible only because of the strength and resilience of the people in our rural communities.

In Pikeville, Kentucky, former coal miners are trading coal for code. They’re retraining to learn HTML, JavaScript, and PHP, transforming an old bottling factory into a digital hub. It’s a transition that not only supports good jobs, but also offers a glimpse of what the future could look like in other communities like Pikeville.

In Clinton County, Ohio, young people have organized to tackle the brain drain, creating a fellowship program that matches local businesses with college students home for the summer. And those young people aren’t just learning, they’re leading — just last year, Wilmington, Ohio elected a majority-millennial city council.



It’s kind of mind boggling how the OP managed to turn this into a negative and then get all his RW friends to jump on the dog pile

How can this be so distorted by some people? Unbelievable, and the lengths these types will go in order to misrepresent is astounding.
 

HCProf

Council Hall
Sep 2014
29,165
18,656
USA
The promise with that premise is that coal jobs are just not expanding, but actually shrinking for the most part. And have been for awhile

Experts in the industry have already pointed out, repeatedly, that the coal jobs are extremely unlikely to come back. The plight of the coal industry is more a function of changing energy markets and increased demand for natural gas than anything else. The chief executive of the nation's largest privately held coal operation told the Guardian earlier this monththat Trump “can't bring back.”

Another largely overlooked point about coal jobs is that there just aren't that many of them relative to other industries. There are various estimates of coal-sector employment, but according to the Census Bureau's County Business Patterns program, which allows for detailed comparisons with many other industries, the coal industry employed 76,572 people in 2014, the latest year for which data is available.

That number includes not just miners but also office workers, sales staff and all of the other individuals who work at coal-mining companies.

Although 76,000 might seem like a large number, consider that similar numbers of people are employed by, say, the bowling (69,088) and skiing (75,036) industries. Other dwindling industries, such as travel agencies (99,888 people), employ considerably more. Used-car dealerships provide 138,000 jobs. Theme parks provide nearly 144,000. Carwash employment tops 150,000.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/03/31/8-surprisingly-small-industries-that-employ-more-people-than-coal/?utm_term=.339aa894dbe3

I personally, would like to see money put in to re-train coal workers for the renewable jobs - just like Hillary proposed when she was running for office. But of course her comments were yet again, taken WAY out of context


In her response, Clinton did say that she would be putting coal companies out of business, as a result of moving toward renewable energy sources. But she followed that by saying she wanted to create new economic opportunities for current coal workers, possibly spurred by clean energy development.


Look, we have serious economic problems in many parts of our country. And Roland is absolutely right. Instead of dividing people the way Donald Trump does, let's reunite around policies that will bring jobs and opportunities to all these underserved poor communities. So for example, I'm the only candidate which has a policy about how to bring economic opportunity using clean renewable energy as the key into coal country. Because we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business, right?

And we're going to make it clear that we don't want to forget those people. Those people labored in those mines for generations, losing their health, often losing their lives to turn on our lights and power our factories.

Now we've got to move away from coal and all the other fossil fuels, but I don't want to move away from the people who did the best they could to produce the energy that we relied on.

In context: Hillary Clinton’s comments about coal jobs
Those comments killed HRC as far as winning over red States. She said herself, that she regrets saying that. This problem is...they were forgotten and left to rot. As far as the jobs mentioned:

Although 76,000 might seem like a large number, consider that similar numbers of people are employed by, say, the bowling (69,088) and skiing (75,036) industries. Other dwindling industries, such as travel agencies (99,888 people), employ considerably more. Used-car dealerships provide 138,000 jobs. Theme parks provide nearly 144,000. Carwash employment tops 150,000.

Do any of those jobs pay 60K or more? Will they replace the tax base that was lost? 76K is huge when the loss occurs in a small rural State. I actually visit a rural community at least 3 times a year because I own a house in Kentucky. I see the devastation of the area. Kentucky is struggling to keep their Medicaid program alive and if it were not for those "horrible" Baptist churches, many in the community would starve.

I will always be a champion for the working class...because that is what I am. I will never be the elitist who makes fun of poor people and post memes of toothless people and I hope I will always have empathy for people who are down on their luck. At least these people want to work and not give in to public assistance. What I would have liked to have seen...incentives for companies to move into the area with good paying jobs. That is how you help the middle class.