For Those of You Who Blame Homeowners for the Meltdown, Here is Your New Rant Victim

O

Oberdan

Just in from the financial district:

Malls, hotels next victims in new mortgage crisis - Yahoo! News

Hotels in Tucson, Ariz., and Hilton Head, S.C., also are about to default on their mortgages.

That pace is expected to quicken. The number of late payments and defaults will double, if not triple, by the end of next year, according to analysts from Fitch Ratings Ltd., which evaluates companies' credit.

"We're probably in the first inning of the commercial mortgage problem," said Scott Tross, a real estate lawyer with Herrick Feinstein in New Jersey
As you can see, the banks are a wee bit more guilty than you may think. For those of you who all ready know this, we should start a betting pool on what else they messed over with bad loaning policies. Let's see... Would it be theme park upgrade loans or loans to churches next?
 
S

Stinger

Re: For Those of You Who Blame Homeowners for the Meltdown, Here is Your New Rant Vic

Just in from the financial district:

Malls, hotels next victims in new mortgage crisis - Yahoo! News



As you can see, the banks are a wee bit more guilty than you may think. For those of you who all ready know this, we should start a betting pool on what else they messed over with bad loaning policies. Let's see... Would it be theme park upgrade loans or loans to churches next?
Could you be a little more specific, what is it you are trying to blame the banks for and what is you are saying those home owners who took out stupid loans for more than they could afford and not to be blamed for?
 
O

Oberdan

Re: For Those of You Who Blame Homeowners for the Meltdown, Here is Your New Rant Vic

Could you be a little more specific, what is it you are trying to blame the banks for and what is you are saying those home owners who took out stupid loans for more than they could afford and not to be blamed for?
Banks and lending agencies representing multiple banks trained their reps to sell sub prime loans with false pretenses. One tried to sell me one, and it sounded too good to be true. I was taught that if such a thing sounded too good, it usually was and can be a trap. My wife was furious with me for not getting an ARM loan on a home, while we qualified for a regular loan with no problem. We didn't need a sub prime loan, but that didn't stop the industry from trying to sell us one more than once when I was after a fixed rate.

She's not furious anymore and is glad I was stubborn as hell. Then I asked her to wait for the bubble to pop and for the housing to fall to rock bottom prices. She agreed and hence, we are in an apartment for now.

Some folks blame home owners all too much for evil salesman tactics for those loans. It looks like the same methods worked on BIG businesses with top notch lawyers looking over shoulders, and I want it clarified that the bankers and their practices are much more responsible than people who wanted a home and got talked into something they can't afford once the payment balloons. If corporate laywers for hotels and malls are falling for the antics, what chance does a simple consumer have?

I was told to my face by Citigroup that I would have zero problems refinancing my ARM loan before the payments went up and I could write off the interest only payments to the tune of 20 grand that would come back to me through deductions. I called bullshit on him and left the building, even though it was in black and white on paper. I was lucky I got a bad feeling, a gut reaction to say no. Not everybody gets those, you know.
 
F

freckles

Re: For Those of You Who Blame Homeowners for the Meltdown, Here is Your New Rant Vic

It doesn't help that the people trying to sell you it probably aren't versed very well in it themselves and are just there for a paycheck.
 
M

michaelr

Re: For Those of You Who Blame Homeowners for the Meltdown, Here is Your New Rant Vic

Just in from the financial district:

Malls, hotels next victims in new mortgage crisis - Yahoo! News



As you can see, the banks are a wee bit more guilty than you may think. For those of you who all ready know this, we should start a betting pool on what else they messed over with bad loaning policies. Let's see... Would it be theme park upgrade loans or loans to churches next?
This is kind of smoke and mirrors Ober. This week was a good case of timing for the bankers, it was a holiday week. They wanted you to think everything is OK so they(the PPT) pumped the market a bit. The truth is, growth came in at a -1%, well lets look at that. We had a growth of .5%, so a growth of -1% equals -.5%, that is a contraction. At the same time the hedge funds failed, the IRA's and 401's took another hit. Yes commercial real estate did take a tremendous hit, but this is the beginning, and all the other bad news will be hid behind it, and will never see the light of day.

It is kind of hard to explain, but rest assured, you bad news is very compounded with the other bad news. Thats both sides of the truth!!
 
S

Stinger

Re: For Those of You Who Blame Homeowners for the Meltdown, Here is Your New Rant Vic

Banks and lending agencies representing multiple banks trained their reps to sell sub prime loans
Yes the government and in particular Fannie/Freddie were pressuring them to do so, lowering their standards and increasing their guaranties to entice them into doing so.


with false pretenses.
The the borrower has grounds to sue and get damages and out from under the mortgage.

One tried to sell me one, and it sounded too good to be true. I was taught that if such a thing sounded too good, it usually was and can be a trap. My wife was furious with me for not getting an ARM loan on a home, while we qualified for a regular loan with no problem. We didn't need a sub prime loan, but that didn't stop the industry from trying to sell us one more than once when I was after a fixed rate.
Great, my wife and I also didn't buy a house for more than we could afford that would have required a sub-prime loan. We did take out a ARM, in 1985 when rates were around 14%. The rate fell for the better part of 15 years when we refinance and locked in a 5.75% rate in a 15 year note.

As a consumer it is YOUR job to know what you can afford and what type of loan you are signing and what the repercussions of such a loan are. As I am sure you know you are free to hire an attorney, which we did, to go over the loan documents and explain what they are and what you are signing. You can read your truth in lending docs all by yourself.

She's not furious anymore and is glad I was stubborn as hell. Then I asked her to wait for the bubble to pop and for the housing to fall to rock bottom prices. She agreed and hence, we are in an apartment for now.
It's a buyers market. We just did $22,000 worth of home improvements and are staying here. We had no problem securing financing at 5.5%.

Some folks blame home owners all too much for evil salesman tactics for those loans.
No one puts a gun to anyone's head and it is the CONSUMERS RESPONSIBILITY to make sure they know what they are doing and hire the proper people to handle the details.

The fact is it was the government who was pushing these lowering of standards and even placing quotas on banks to meet the goals they set. This goes back to the 70's and 80's.
 
I

International Underwriter

Re: For Those of You Who Blame Homeowners for the Meltdown, Here is Your New Rant Vic

Yes the government and in particular Fannie/Freddie were pressuring them to do so, lowering their standards and increasing their guaranties to entice them into doing so.

The fact is it was the government who was pushing these lowering of standards and even placing quotas on banks to meet the goals they set. This goes back to the 70's and 80's.
Incredible! Even without an iota of real world numbers to support your suppositions, you continue to spew this bullshit propaganda as.

Fannie/freddie didn't originate subprime loans. Thats it! Plain and simple. Here is the link to a thread I know you are aware of because you posted on it:

http://www.ballot.com/hotwire/29035-the-biggest-propaganda-event-of-century-8.html

Post #80 will take care of your fannie wet dreams and post #76 by justone.......... takes care of your quota fetish.

Once again I challenge you to provide real world data to support your "quota" and fannie pressuring subprime assertions.
 
R

Ronin Tetsuro

Re: For Those of You Who Blame Homeowners for the Meltdown, Here is Your New Rant Vic

Could you be a little more specific, what is it you are trying to blame the banks for and what is you are saying those home owners who took out stupid loans for more than they could afford and not to be blamed for?
A Mexican guest worker that makes $14,000/yr got every penny he needed to buy a $720,000 home.

I know many housing apologist out there are saying, “financial responsibility falls completely on the buyers†and other distorted logic that mitigates the outright fraudulent intent of the agent. Blame is not assigned equally in this case. Things are not black and white in this world. In terms of percentages the majority of the blame falls on those with a professional fiduciary responsibility; this includes the agent, lender, and those on Wall Street greedy for returns at any cost. The fact that this loan went through the system shows how relaxed and pathetic the industry really is. Do you really suspect the agent felt that they could refinance in 3 to 6 months? On what basis? Two OTHER families moving in? And this family will pay by being foreclosed upon and having whatever credit ruined and potentially all their savings wiped out.
http://drhousingbubble.blogspot.com/2007/05/yearly-income-14000-purchase-of-house.html

Shame on the worker or shame on the bank? There is a correct answer here.
 
B

Blueneck

Re: For Those of You Who Blame Homeowners for the Meltdown, Here is Your New Rant Vic

Who's responsibility is it to make sure the banks don't collapse? The taxpayer? If the banks made shitty loans and the customer defaulted, no one involved should be bailed out. Period. The only reason anyone is trying to help the homeowners is because the bank does not want the house back.
 
S

Stinger

Re: For Those of You Who Blame Homeowners for the Meltdown, Here is Your New Rant Vic

Incredible! Even without an iota of real world numbers to support your suppositions, you continue to spew this bullshit propaganda as.
No we've posted plenty of it.
Fannie/freddie didn't originate subprime loans. Thats it!
Since no one claimed they did.................

Post #80 will take care of your fannie wet dreams and post #76 by justone.......... takes care of your quota fetish.
They had to meet standards in their loan acceptance which became quotas by any other name, it they did not have the ratio's in their loan portfolios it invited scurtiney from the government and the market share requirements and protest from the left.

Critical Analysis of the Recent
CRA Developments
The clearest indicator that the CRA has become
a system of credit allocation is the market share
approach, which implements a quota-based system
intended to change lending behavior. This
was, of course, the inevitable result of President
Clinton’s desire to move from a process-based
system to a performance-based system.
Consider an example of how the system would
function if the agencies’ proposals are adopted.
Assume that a community has five banks.
The shares of total low-income loans that each
bank makes in the community are 35, 30, 20, 10
and 5 percent, respectively. The imposition of
the market share test, at a minimum, would
mean that the banks with only 5 percent and 10
percent of the market would seek to bring their
share up to 20 percent, the average of the five
banks. A premium would likely be placed on
low-income lending and the 5 percent market
share institutions will try to bid away such lending
from the 35 percent market share institutions.
The market share test presumes the desirability
of one-size-fits-all regulation, whereby a
formula-driven system dictates that every institution
in the relevant market should lend roughly
the same portion to the lower-income market
as all other institutions in the relevant market.
Such a system would leave little room for those
who want to specialize in low-income lending
or those who choose not to specialize in lowincome
lending.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv17n4/vmck4-94.pdf

Once again I challenge you to provide real world data to support your "quota" and fannie pressuring subprime assertions.
Who said it was Fannie pressuring anyone, get your arguments straight. Fannie and Freddie just stepped in to facilitate and encourage it and insure it. They and the Democrats in congress enable the out of control expansion of it.