France Suspends Fuel Tax Increase - protest stop

Jan 2014
15,835
5,989
south
#22
From what I understand the tax increases are for climate change. They were part of a policy and known to be going into effect soon. Similar to a carbon tax I believe.
that's the thought. maybe this is an idea of too much too soon. a revision of policy and a slower rate to complete may be needed - I don't know. but, it is clear, the citizens are not happy about it and the government has relented.
 
Likes: bajisima
Oct 2018
682
479
WonderfulOregon
#23
Cost of living keeps going higher and wages are stagnent .

They feel the way Marco is handeling the ecomony is tilted to the RICH. SO they don't like his help the wealthy ideas.


France's yellow vest protesters, 'gas tax is the tip of the iceberg'

The complaint by the yellow jackets isn’t the gas tax.

It’s about the cost of [living] and the disparity between the wealthy and the poor and about how taxes are not really well distributed.

So, what people are asking is literally what is in our motto — equality — and how do you manage to implement equality by having a just and fair tax system.”

It’s that there are too many taxes placed on lower and middle income, which leaves them with less and not keeping up with their costs. Ecdonomical practes of Marco pandering to the rich...(acting like a capitalist that protect wealth while the others can't make ends meet)

The French were hoping that instead of raising diesel prices on top of gas prices, they would see the price of petrol lowered below the price of diesel.

Faced with more than 400 euros in additional gas taxes each month.
Protest has expanded to include students angry with changes to the university system as well.

For France's yellow vest protesters, 'gas tax is the tip of the iceberg'
======================

I know our tRUMPers aka Republicans are desperate to hate liberals and would like to blame the rioters because they think Marco is a liberal!!!! LOL He catering to the rich and not help the poor....that not liberal

If he was liberal, they wouldn't have the complan = a liberal would address university system problems, would see how the 400 is a burden and make sure methods were addressed to bring up their wages

A LIBERAL WOULD ADDRESS THESE PROBLEM...AND MARCO ONLY ADDRESS WHAT THE RICH WANTED


President Marco's backgroud

Minister of Economy, Industry and Digital Affairs

Pushed through business-friendly laws (reforms)

After being a member of the Socialist Party from 2006 to 2009,
Macron ran in the election under the banner of a centrist political movement he founded in April that year


Marco is no liberal - droped the Socialist party in 2009 to invent his own party he called 'center'
 
Last edited:
Oct 2018
682
479
WonderfulOregon
#26
It appears people dislike high taxation. Whooda thunk?
Yah...and it's a proven way to collapse a government

1. Early Roman Republic - public taxes consisted of modest assessments 1% on owned wealth and property.
2. Sometimes would climb as high as 3% in situations such as war
2. These modest taxes were levied against land, homes and other real estate, slaves, animals, personal items and monetary wealth. Taxes were collected from individuals

=================================
How Tax Holidays* Contributed to the Fall of the Roman Empire
*Keep the people with the most weath happy - by letting them not pay taxes = collapse the government

First...The Roman Empire had always taxed just the wealthy.

Corporate America has spent a good portion of the last few years lobbying for a tax holiday.

They asked Congress to allow them to repatriate deferred tax dollars that are sitting offshore and pay a very low tax rate, instead of the 35 percent that they owe. Billions and billions of dollars from corporate profits sit in offshore bank accounts, often completely untaxed.

In an attempt to bring some of it back, the Bush administration and Congress passed a repatriation tax holiday in 2004, allowing tens of billions to come back into the United States after paying a tax rate close to zero. (if they wait long enough, they can avoid paying virtually all corporate tax on foreign income by simply parking the money in an offshore tax haven and waiting for Congress to cave in and pass a tax holiday.)

This outcome was absolutely foreseeable with basic logic.
A tale from Classical history is able to point to a real example of the same pattern: the tax remissions of the Late Roman Empire.

Roman economy was controlled by a small number of large estate owners. Most of the Roman population was free, and a mostly-urban middle class did exist.

Rome had a well-developed tax system, and sought to tax each of the rich, middle class and poor. And, the rich class found a way to escape taxation.

Roman tax collectors went out to large estates in the Roman provincial countryside and assessed the taxes owed by landholders.
Debts to the Roman treasury were recorded, and bills were sent out.
Through a combination of impotent tax collectors and pervasive bribery, the owners of the large estates were able to delay paying taxes.
They would lobby the ruling imperial administration to periodically cancel their debts to the state. Large-scale forgiveness began with Emperor Hadrian As time went on, his practice led to more tax deferral and evasion.

Tax remissions became common for emperors or governors to issue a general tax remission for the senatorial class of entire provinces, especially when political trouble required support from the upper class. Eventually, the imperial administration simply stopped trying to tax large estates.

Of course, Rome still needed tax revenue.

They were fighting never-ending wars with powerful barbarians on all fronts When the imperial administration was increasingly unable to extract tax revenue from the largest estates, they raised taxes on the poor and middle class.

The taxes became so burdensome that the Roman middle class all but disappeared, and many indebted citizens who were not wealthy enough to bribe tax collectors were forced to flee.

They ran away to find refuge in the large, de-facto tax exempt, estates run by the very people whose tax avoidance caused the middle class over-burdensome taxes. This created a system of indentured servitude that lasted for over a thousand years, and contributed to the fall of the Western Roman Empire.
Sound familiar?

We need to break the tax holiday feedback loop of rising expectations right now, by never again allowing the wealthiest corporations to believe they are above paying taxes.

[1] Neesen, Lutz, The Revenues of Rome. The Journal of Roman Studies, Vol. 71 (1981), pp. 170.
[2] Ralph W. Mathisen, “Julius Valerius Maiorianus (18 February/28 December 457 - 2/7 August 461)”, De Imperatoribus Romanis.
[3] Wickam, Chris. The Other Transition: From the Ancient World to Feudalism. Past and Present


================
Parallels Between the Decline of the Roman Empire and the Decline of the United States of America
Updated on November 28, 2018
Parallels Between the Decline of the Roman Empire and the Decline of the United States of America
 
Apr 2018
5,768
1,212
oregon
#27
Yah...and it's a proven way to collapse a government

1. Early Roman Republic - public taxes consisted of modest assessments 1% on owned wealth and property.
2. Sometimes would climb as high as 3% in situations such as war
2. These modest taxes were levied against land, homes and other real estate, slaves, animals, personal items and monetary wealth. Taxes were collected from individuals

=================================
How Tax Holidays* Contributed to the Fall of the Roman Empire
*Keep the people with the most weath happy - by letting them not pay taxes = collapse the government

First...The Roman Empire had always taxed just the wealthy.

Corporate America has spent a good portion of the last few years lobbying for a tax holiday.

They asked Congress to allow them to repatriate deferred tax dollars that are sitting offshore and pay a very low tax rate, instead of the 35 percent that they owe. Billions and billions of dollars from corporate profits sit in offshore bank accounts, often completely untaxed.

In an attempt to bring some of it back, the Bush administration and Congress passed a repatriation tax holiday in 2004, allowing tens of billions to come back into the United States after paying a tax rate close to zero. (if they wait long enough, they can avoid paying virtually all corporate tax on foreign income by simply parking the money in an offshore tax haven and waiting for Congress to cave in and pass a tax holiday.)

This outcome was absolutely foreseeable with basic logic.
A tale from Classical history is able to point to a real example of the same pattern: the tax remissions of the Late Roman Empire.

Roman economy was controlled by a small number of large estate owners. Most of the Roman population was free, and a mostly-urban middle class did exist.

Rome had a well-developed tax system, and sought to tax each of the rich, middle class and poor. And, the rich class found a way to escape taxation.

Roman tax collectors went out to large estates in the Roman provincial countryside and assessed the taxes owed by landholders.
Debts to the Roman treasury were recorded, and bills were sent out.
Through a combination of impotent tax collectors and pervasive bribery, the owners of the large estates were able to delay paying taxes.
They would lobby the ruling imperial administration to periodically cancel their debts to the state. Large-scale forgiveness began with Emperor Hadrian As time went on, his practice led to more tax deferral and evasion.

Tax remissions became common for emperors or governors to issue a general tax remission for the senatorial class of entire provinces, especially when political trouble required support from the upper class. Eventually, the imperial administration simply stopped trying to tax large estates.

Of course, Rome still needed tax revenue.

They were fighting never-ending wars with powerful barbarians on all fronts When the imperial administration was increasingly unable to extract tax revenue from the largest estates, they raised taxes on the poor and middle class.

The taxes became so burdensome that the Roman middle class all but disappeared, and many indebted citizens who were not wealthy enough to bribe tax collectors were forced to flee.

They ran away to find refuge in the large, de-facto tax exempt, estates run by the very people whose tax avoidance caused the middle class over-burdensome taxes. This created a system of indentured servitude that lasted for over a thousand years, and contributed to the fall of the Western Roman Empire.
Sound familiar?

We need to break the tax holiday feedback loop of rising expectations right now, by never again allowing the wealthiest corporations to believe they are above paying taxes.

[1] Neesen, Lutz, The Revenues of Rome. The Journal of Roman Studies, Vol. 71 (1981), pp. 170.
[2] Ralph W. Mathisen, “Julius Valerius Maiorianus (18 February/28 December 457 - 2/7 August 461)”, De Imperatoribus Romanis.
[3] Wickam, Chris. The Other Transition: From the Ancient World to Feudalism. Past and Present


================
Parallels Between the Decline of the Roman Empire and the Decline of the United States of America
Updated on November 28, 2018
Parallels Between the Decline of the Roman Empire and the Decline of the United States of America
tl;dr
 
Feb 2010
26,346
27,071
Sunny Bournemouth, Dorset
#28
Oh I would too. But the media is portraying this more of an extreme thing. They are saying most of these protesters are far right and far left and that the majority of people dont support it. I have to wonder about that. Maybe they just arent out protesting?
It started out being about fuel tax, and Macron, then it expanded generally, to include for example, working people taking two jobs and still not seeing any benefit, due to government policy and taxation. The places attacked were government buildings, and dealers in luxury goods, and then the violent extremists from the far right and the anarchists latched on too, and the violence really erupted.
The OP has jumped the gun about protests stopping, as France is boarding up the windows for le weekend
 
Likes: bajisima
Oct 2014
25,500
3,998
C-A-N-A-D-A-Eh
#29
It started out being about fuel tax, and Macron, then it expanded generally, to include for example, working people taking two jobs and still not seeing any benefit, due to government policy and taxation. The places attacked were government buildings, and dealers in luxury goods

That much is accurate.

It's close to 80% support for the yellow vests, and macron only really has about 20% support.

The protest, toned down for the moment, included police and ambulance workers. Swat teams started removing helmets.

Make no joke about this, that protest is growing and spreading. It will not take much escalation to where it will be France's military who will be forced to choose which side they are on.

Brexit was the demolition charge.
This is the start of the cracks.
The eu is destroyed, they just don't recognize it yet.
 
Likes: orangecat
Feb 2010
26,346
27,071
Sunny Bournemouth, Dorset
#30
That much is accurate.

It's close to 80% support for the yellow vests, and macron only really has about 20% support.

The protest, toned down for the moment, included police and ambulance workers. Swat teams started removing helmets.

Make no joke about this, that protest is growing and spreading. It will not take much escalation to where it will be France's military who will be forced to choose which side they are on.

Brexit was the demolition charge.
This is the start of the cracks.
The eu is destroyed, they just don't recognize it yet.

Nonsense. It's not about the EU.
 

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