George washington mural to be destroyed.

Jan 2007
36,041
8,064
#61
So you support preserving the mural painted by a socialist to depict the murderous conquest of America and the slave trade, simply because you think the people who want to paint over it are democrats? OK...

They can do whatever they want. It shows once again , being offended will get you your way. Tearing down monuments, now art. Race is an underlying reason. And people think diversity is our greatest strength. Endless tension.
 
Feb 2010
34,148
23,955
between Moon and NYC
#62
In the late 1700's virtually everyone qualified as racist under the conventional definition of the word. Few, if any, in that time considered "negros" to be the equals of whites. Regardless whether or not they supported slavery.

The action of covering up (or destroying) the murals strikes me as absurd. Both from the perspective of art and preserving historical artifacts.





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Dec 2013
12,777
14,273
Work
#63
They can do whatever they want. It shows once again , being offended will get you your way. Tearing down monuments, now art. Race is an underlying reason. And people think diversity is our greatest strength. Endless tension.
That doesn't answer my question. Obviously they can do whatever they want, and no one has said any differently. I simply said that judging by what little information I can gather about the rationale for covering up the mural I think it is a terribly misguided idea, even shameful, and they shouldn't do it.

If this were a mural at your kid's school would YOU support painting over it?
 
Likes: THOR
Nov 2018
6,057
1,861
Bel Air, MD
#64
Which of course, it was.



No, it’s called teaching kids to pledge allegiance to the government. As you demonstrate repeatedly, that comes with the tacit agreement that you not criticize it, or even discuss the shameful parts of its history.

Personally, my appreciation of America only grows from knowing the awful history we have overcome, even in the face of state sanctioned brutality. Makes the freedoms we have won all the more special. For some, it’s probably easier to memorize concepts like patriotism and love of country based on a sanitized fairy tale version of our history and angelic magnificence. I think that tends to make people into simpletons who are too stupid to handle reality, which reinforces the power of the government and the “intelligentsia”.

No thanks.
I don't equate the pledge of allegiance to allegiance to our government. The love of government, especially big government is something leftists like. Except when a Republican is in the White House.

My appreciation of America comes from knowing we are a free nation, with a great Constitution, and it's not the love of "fairy tale versions" but the very real history of always trying to do the right thing, working towards being a better country, once governed by "we the people" and not bureaucrats in D.C. who only have their best interest in mind.
 
Dec 2013
12,777
14,273
Work
#66
...and it's not the love of "fairy tale versions" but the very real history of always trying to do the right thing...
Sounds like a fairy tale version to me. The sad part is you seem to think that makes Americans unique, when in fact every political movement all the way down to the most heinous, was done by people “trying to do the right thing” so that part is completely meaningless double-talk. The important part is whether or not they were doing the right thing, and if they weren't were the people who fought them successful in stopping them? The history of the US is in part the history of people winning rights from a government or others in positions of power who were intent on denying those rights.

Slave owners probably honestly felt they were "trying to do the right thing" but why should I care what they thought? They were doing the wrong thing, and ultimately justice prevailed. People employed 10 year-old kids to work in textile mills for 10 or more hours a day. I'm sure they thought they were doing the right thing too, by giving kids a job to do. The thing is, they weren't doing the right thing, and eventually justice prevailed there too, because people stood up and demanded changes.

If you prefer the whitewashed history, that's fine. I prefer the history of people expanding rights and democratizing society by taking control from the centralized elite that this government was founded around.
 
Jan 2007
36,041
8,064
#67
Sounds like a fairy tale version to me. The sad part is you seem to think that makes Americans unique, when in fact every political movement all the way down to the most heinous, was done by people “trying to do the right thing” so that part is completely meaningless double-talk. The important part is whether or not they were doing the right thing, and if they weren't were the people who fought them successful in stopping them? The history of the US is in part the history of people winning rights from a government or others in positions of power who were intent on denying those rights.

Slave owners probably honestly felt they were "trying to do the right thing" but why should I care what they thought? They were doing the wrong thing, and ultimately justice prevailed. People employed 10 year-old kids to work in textile mills for 10 or more hours a day. I'm sure they thought they were doing the right thing too, by giving kids a job to do. The thing is, they weren't doing the right thing, and eventually justice prevailed there too, because people stood up and demanded changes.

If you prefer the whitewashed history, that's fine. I prefer the history of people expanding rights and democratizing society by taking control from the centralized elite that this government was founded around.

The western world evolved from colonial powers to enlightened societies. Much of the world still hasn't advanced.
 
Nov 2018
6,057
1,861
Bel Air, MD
#69
Sounds like a fairy tale version to me. The sad part is you seem to think that makes Americans unique, when in fact every political movement all the way down to the most heinous, was done by people “trying to do the right thing” so that part is completely meaningless double-talk. The important part is whether or not they were doing the right thing, and if they weren't were the people who fought them successful in stopping them? The history of the US is in part the history of people winning rights from a government or others in positions of power who were intent on denying those rights.

Who determines what the right thing is? That depends on one's political persuasion. Also, our history is built on a Constitution that great men wrote to give us the rights. The only people I see trying to take away rights are your buddies on the left. Free speech and the 2nd Amendment, for example. Those who win wars are usually the people who get to right the history of it.

Slave owners probably honestly felt they were "trying to do the right thing" but why should I care what they thought? They were doing the wrong thing, and ultimately justice prevailed. People employed 10 year-old kids to work in textile mills for 10 or more hours a day. I'm sure they thought they were doing the right thing too, by giving kids a job to do. The thing is, they weren't doing the right thing, and eventually justice prevailed there too, because people stood up and demanded changes.

When we look back, we tend to think that slave owners were evil men and women, but they were under the mistaken belief that black people were really not human and were inferior to "real" humans. We all know how ridiculous that belief is, but it was a common belief in the early part of our history. I refuse to think that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were evil men. They were obviously wrong-headed, but that should not diminish the good things they did.

There are probably things we believe today, things we take for granted, which will prove to be idiotic and those who believe such things were crazy.

If you prefer the whitewashed history, that's fine. I prefer the history of people expanding rights and democratizing society by taking control from the centralized elite that this government was founded around.

I have already said I prefer a government that works for ordinary AMERICANS. But, I am cautious about those who say we need expanding rights. What rights need to be expanded and how will those impact on others rights? And, we are not a democratic society, but a democratic republic. As far as elites, what I see wrong with Congress, for example, are a whole bunch of men and women who run in election after election and are in Congress for far too many years. Our Founding Fathers never counted on an elite group (Congress), who would be made up of the same people for 40+ years.
 
Aug 2018
2,532
3,992
Vancouver
#70
Never said I didn't want kids to learn history. But, how about teaching them both the GOOD and the bad? It seems today, leftists teachers want to trash the country, our culture and leaders, when in fact, America has done much good in the world. You do know that, don't you?

And, if the kids are not being taught to hate, then where is all of this hate coming from? And, please don't tell me it's Trump. We have had plenty of hate under Obama, as cities burned, and people were rioting.

And, where did I say that kids should do the pledge of allegiance over and over again for.............??

Once would be fine, but somehow even once offends leftists, doesn't it?
I've never pledged allegiance to anything. Except my wife.

Nor would I.