God Prefers

Ian Jeffrey

Council Hall
Mar 2013
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Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
He denies objective existence of goodness and yet affirms the objective existence of the same? That is a defect in reasoning.
Yes, but not what I said. He is not affirming G-d's existence in any way. Kindness for its own sake.
Of course it is. That is a worldview that treats everyone, regardless of religion, as 'children of g-d'.
The idea that people need "salvation," however, is hardly shared by all. That is the worldview I was addressing.
 
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StanStill

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Dec 2013
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God sends atheists to Hell. And anyone else who is not saved by Grace through Faith in Christ alone.
That's because the God you believe in is cruel and hates his children for failing to see him... You would think an all powerful being wouldn't need to punish his own creations for failing to tell him how wonderful he is and how thankful they are for his saving grace.

It's a trait we wouldn't accept from any person, and yet I can see evidence of that trait in the most supposedly devout Christians. Hating the blind.
 
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Ian Jeffrey

Council Hall
Mar 2013
78,161
47,947
Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
That's because the G-d you believe in is cruel and hates his children for failing to see him.
Which, of course, makes no sense for an omnibenevolent being. G-d does not make evil things - or people.
It's a trait we wouldn't accept from any person, and yet I can see evidence of that trait in the most supposedly devout Christians. Hating the blind.
Yes, the idea that a person who is totally depraved except for one thing makes no sense. Much less sense is made by creating a "blind" person then punishing the person for being blind. Even worse is the person who characterizes as " blind" those people who choose not to buy into the spiritual terrorism that some engage in.
 
Dec 2018
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Which, of course, makes no sense for an omnibenevolent being. G-d does not make evil things - or people.

Yes, the idea that a person who is totally depraved except for one thing makes no sense. Much less sense is made by creating a "blind" person then punishing the person for being blind. Even worse is the person who characterizes as " blind" those people who choose not to buy into the spiritual terrorism that some engage in.
While I agree 100%, the Bible says God does exactly that. Obviously the Bible is a human view of God, not God itself.
 
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I would go further in saying that everyone is saved. That is the central theological truth of the 'good news'.
So Trump can murder someone on Fifth Avenue and still go to Heaven? Everyone goes to Heaven?
 
Jul 2013
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That's because the God you believe in is cruel and hates his children for failing to see him... You would think an all powerful being wouldn't need to punish his own creations for failing to tell him how wonderful he is and how thankful they are for his saving grace.

It's a trait we wouldn't accept from any person, and yet I can see evidence of that trait in the most supposedly devout Christians. Hating the blind.
The only logical belief for Christians is that of Universalism, that God will save every soul, period. And Universalists make a compelling case for their stance, much better than the "hellfire and brimstone" faction, that just come off as petty bigots full of pride and spite.

 
Sep 2007
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Trying to speculate what God can do is futile. Our only concern is what we do. We have been given a choice


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So, how bout you and me put our differences aside and go down to the border and separate some kids from their families. It'll be fun.
 
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StanStill

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Which, of course, makes no sense for an omnibenevolent being. G-d does not make evil things - or people.
It also never made sense to me that an all powerful, all knowing God is "a jealous god". Granted, that's probably from the time that people believed that they worshiped "their" god, who was one of many gods, but still. Seems like a character flaw in God that is supposed to keep people fearful that God will react angrily.

Yes, the idea that a person who is totally depraved except for one thing makes no sense. Much less sense is made by creating a "blind" person then punishing the person for being blind. Even worse is the person who characterizes as " blind" those people who choose not to buy into the spiritual terrorism that some engage in.
It strikes me as a teacher punishing his students for getting a failing grade, and not just failing to give them a reward for a good grade, but giving a painful, physical punishment for not understanding. Also, the teacher never actively teaches the course, just leaves it up to the students to figure out the material based on things written by past students, then shows up on the last day and decides who will be punished for eternity.
 
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Dec 2018
9,198
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the Heart of America
The only logical belief for Christians is that of Universalism, that God will save every soul, period. And Universalists make a compelling case for their stance, much better than the "hellfire and brimstone" faction, that just come off as petty bigots full of pride and spite.

I agree here since it fits with a loving, merciful and all-knowing God, not a petty tyrant squashing ants for pleasure.

It's not that God turns people away, but that people have the choice of living within God's grace or outside of it. The legend is that Lucifer, and others, chose to live outside of God's grace. When they choose, they can live within it again.