Great Standoff on the Ugra

The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
41,451
27,604
Toronto
#1
Tomorrow, November 11th, Canadians, Americans, and Europeans will mourn their WWI dead, though also celebrate the peace afterwards.

Russians will grieve also, having lost more people back then than many others, especially if we count the subsequent Civil War, which cost the lives of at least another five million civilians...

But, for them, November 11th is also a somewhat joyous occasion, as it is kind of one of Russia's independence days.

November 11th marks the conclusion of the Great Standoff along the banks of the Ugra river in 1480, between the armies of Russian Tsar Ivan III (left) and Tatar Khan Akhmet


At that time, the Russian Tsardom was still formally subjugated to the Tatar Great Horde, as it had been for hundreds of years already, since the Mongol invasion in 12th century, who left the Tatars in charge; albeit the Horde had lost much of it's power after, a century prior, in 1380, Tsar Dmitry delivered a crushing defeat to Khan Mamai at the Battle of Kulikovo Field


Now, Khan Akhmet was looking to "Make the Horde Great Again", shall we say lol To rebuild the glorious might of his ancestral empire, by showing the others who is boss, starting with the Russians. He gathered all his forces, to march across the Ugra river, in what is now Russia's Kaluga region, and what was then the natural boundary between Russian and Tatar-controlled territory


But Ivan seems to have had decent spies and learned of this in advance and was waiting for Akhmet with all his own men, on his side of the Ugra, two mighty armies staring each other down


For days, the two camps traded potshots with their cannons; and the Tatars constantly attempted to breach the river; with the Russians driving them back each time. Until, finally, by November 11th, Akhmet basically accepted that they weren't gonna win this thing, that Ivan's army is too damn strong, and it ain't worth it, and ordered his guys to retreat.

In effect, this is marked as the final recognition of Russia as independent of the Tatar-Mongol Horde. The birth, basically, of the modern Russian state. There will be big celebrations for this tomorrow, especially in Kaluga region :)

There are, of course, loud objections from the Muslim spiritual leadership (which is made up pretty much exclusively of Tatars lol They are an exemplary loyal, law-abiding minority today and the Kremlin trust them much more than any of the Caucasus Muslims haha) Nobody likes being reminded of losses and defeats ;) hehe

For the Slave though, yeah, it is a nice day :)
 
Jul 2011
73,096
39,944
Memphis, Tn.
#2
Tomorrow, November 11th, Canadians, Americans, and Europeans will mourn their WWI dead, though also celebrate the peace afterwards.

Russians will grieve also, having lost more people back then than many others, especially if we count the subsequent Civil War, which cost the lives of at least another five million civilians...

But, for them, November 11th is also a somewhat joyous occasion, as it is kind of one of Russia's independence days.

November 11th marks the conclusion of the Great Standoff along the banks of the Ugra river in 1480, between the armies of Russian Tsar Ivan III (left) and Tatar Khan Akhmet


At that time, the Russian Tsardom was still formally subjugated to the Tatar Great Horde, as it had been for hundreds of years already, since the Mongol invasion in 12th century, who left the Tatars in charge; albeit the Horde had lost much of it's power after, a century prior, in 1380, Tsar Dmitry delivered a crushing defeat to Khan Mamai at the Battle of Kulikovo Field


Now, Khan Akhmet was looking to "Make the Horde Great Again", shall we say lol To rebuild the glorious might of his ancestral empire, by showing the others who is boss, starting with the Russians. He gathered all his forces, to march across the Ugra river, in what is now Russia's Kaluga region, and what was then the natural boundary between Russian and Tatar-controlled territory


But Ivan seems to have had decent spies and learned of this in advance and was waiting for Akhmet with all his own men, on his side of the Ugra, two mighty armies staring each other down


For days, the two camps traded potshots with their cannons; and the Tatars constantly attempted to breach the river; with the Russians driving them back each time. Until, finally, by November 11th, Akhmet basically accepted that they weren't gonna win this thing, that Ivan's army is too damn strong, and it ain't worth it, and ordered his guys to retreat.

In effect, this is marked as the final recognition of Russia as independent of the Tatar-Mongol Horde. The birth, basically, of the modern Russian state. There will be big celebrations for this tomorrow, especially in Kaluga region :)

There are, of course, loud objections from the Muslim spiritual leadership (which is made up pretty much exclusively of Tatars lol They are an exemplary loyal, law-abiding minority today and the Kremlin trust them much more than any of the Caucasus Muslims haha) Nobody likes being reminded of losses and defeats ;) hehe

For the Slave though, yeah, it is a nice day :)
Thanks Man, I enjoy these interesting little histroy lessons of yours.
 

The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
41,451
27,604
Toronto
#3
Thanks Man, I enjoy these interesting little histroy lessons of yours.
I love history, always been my favorite subject, back in school, and later in college too...

I even had a phase, as a teenager, when wanted to be an archaeologist when grow up lmao

Brother in law, who actually knows some real archaeologists, here in Canada, took me once to meet them. That's when I quickly realized it's not like Indiana Jones, in real life, but more like - spend your whole day digging around in mud haha So, chose another career path.

But I am still very interested in history, Russian, Canadian, whatever, it all fascinates me...
 
Likes: Hollywood
Jul 2011
73,096
39,944
Memphis, Tn.
#4
I love history, always been my favorite subject, back in school, and later in college too...

I even had a phase, as a teenager, when wanted to be an archaeologist when grow up lmao

Brother in law, who actually knows some real archaeologists, here in Canada, took me once to meet them. That's when I quickly realized it's not like Indiana Jones, in real life, but more like - spend your whole day digging around in mud haha So, chose another career path.

But I am still very interested in history, Russian, Canadian, whatever, it all fascinates me...
Same here. I'm currently reading a book on the exploration and development of the Mississipi River Valley by the first Europeans to reach the area in the 17th century. Not just the geography of the region but it gives fascinating details of the lives and culture of the indigenous people the Europeans encounted for the first time.
 
Likes: The Man

The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
41,451
27,604
Toronto
#5
Same here. I'm currently reading a book on the exploration and development of the Mississipi River Valley by the first Europeans to reach the area in the 17th century. Not just the geography of the region but it gives fascinating details of the lives and culture of the indigenous people the Europeans encounted for the first time.
I love this place, visited it many times when we were still in BC
 
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