Humans Arrived In Madagascar ~8500 BC, Much Earlier Than Previously Thought

Dec 2014
10,316
7,696
SPECTRE HQ
#41
Sigh. There is SOME evidence, geological in nature, and still hotly disputed, that the Sphinx MAY be much older than the great pyramids. But no, we KNOW when the great pyramids were built, and their dating is NOT in serious question, by anyone except people out there on the fringe. And I don't know which Greek philosophers whose existence you are questioning. Mathematicians such as Pythagoras, Euclid, and Archimedes, DEFINITELY existed. In the case of the latter two, we have their WRITINGS! Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle, all DEFINITELY existed. For crying out loud, Aristotle was the TUTOR of Alexander the Great! Surely you are not questioning the existence of Alexander the Great!!
He has got a point. There is no contemporary PHYSICAL evidence for the existence of Socrates, Plato etc. The same applies to Jesus, but there is physical evidence for Alexander in contemporaneous inscriptions and coins, just as there is for Pontius Pilatus. However, this in no way calls into question the fact that the philosophers didn't exist, and I don't buy into this one when Atheists employ it regarding Jesus. It's the old canard based upon the theme, the 'absence of evidence is evidence of absence' (omitting the contemporaneous qualification) and I never bought into that fallacious argument.

On the Egyptian dating, all historians realise that the current dating is based upon the Sothic Cycle, and it is difficult to accurately date events by using this method (so Egyptologists agree that the dating is somewhat arbitrary). Biblical scholars believe the Sothic Cycle to be false, but that is motivated by the desire to reconcile the Biblical records with those of Egypt.

Sothic cycle - Wikipedia
 
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Oct 2014
23,270
3,589
C-A-N-A-D-A-Eh
#42
He has got a point. There is no contemporary PHYSICAL evidence for the existence of Socrates, Plato etc. The same applies to Jesus, but there is physical evidence for Alexander in contemporaneous inscriptions and coins, just as there is for Pontius Pilatus. However, this in no way calls into question the fact that the philosophers didn't exist, and I don't buy into this one when Atheists employ it regarding Jesus. It's the old canard based upon the theme, the 'absence of evidence is evidence of absence' (omitting the contemporaneous qualification) and I never bought into that fallacious argument.
Thanks, you explained that a bit better than I did. I wasn't trying to add in the "and that proves he's son of God ......." That you correctly pointed out it often gets abused to make larger points.

I was trying to stick to the core fact, that historical evidence has been lost many times from many cultures through history. That means there's at least some elements of reconstruction, it's not to disprove history, more just pointing out that it is not as concrete as we might like. So, artifacts as were found are bound to pop up from time to time.

On the Egyptian dating, all historians realise that the current dating is based upon the Sothic Cycle, and it is difficult to accurately date events by using this method (so Egyptologists agree that the dating is somewhat arbitrary). Biblical scholars believe the Sothic Cycle to be false, but that is motivated by the desire to reconcile the Biblical records with those of Egypt.

Sothic cycle - Wikipedia
I was not familiar with that aspect.

It is quite possible that what we call the Old Testament (or Torah) was passed down as oral tradition for possibly thousands of years before being transcribed... That dating relates to adding all the ages of all the important names / lineages and comes up with that time frame... I mean, it's an effort at least.

However, when you have Adam and Eve living for several hundred years, that they are genetic siblings, that there's not supposed to be others. There are some things that need to be reconciled between real world and the story, or just label it as fiction (which I know many will do).... The Old Testament reads something like a comic book ESPECIALLY if you take the time to read the apocryphal books.
 
Jan 2016
38,422
34,111
Colorado
#43
He has got a point. There is no contemporary PHYSICAL evidence for the existence of Socrates, Plato etc. The same applies to Jesus, but there is physical evidence for Alexander in contemporaneous inscriptions and coins, just as there is for Pontius Pilatus. However, this in no way calls into question the fact that the philosophers didn't exist, and I don't buy into this one when Atheists employ it regarding Jesus. It's the old canard based upon the theme, the 'absence of evidence is evidence of absence' (omitting the contemporaneous qualification) and I never bought into that fallacious argument.

On the Egyptian dating, all historians realise that the current dating is based upon the Sothic Cycle, and it is difficult to accurately date events by using this method (so Egyptologists agree that the dating is somewhat arbitrary). Biblical scholars believe the Sothic Cycle to be false, but that is motivated by the desire to reconcile the Biblical records with those of Egypt.

Sothic cycle - Wikipedia
I know of NO serious archaeologist who thinks that the great pyramids of Egypt date back to ~10,000 BC, which is what he was arguing. Surely you are not putting your support behind such an outlandish claim.
 
Likes: Arkady
Jan 2016
38,422
34,111
Colorado
#45

The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
39,611
25,764
Toronto
#47
The ancient world is a mystery...

For example, Russian archaeologists believe there existed a now extinct civilization in Western Siberia in the ancient era, who built massive circular fortress cities of wood and stone, like so

They have found some remains, so evidence of this. Yet otherwise have no real idea exactly who these people were. The various living indigenous nations of Siberia today, all of whom had been there for tens of thousands of years, have no record, written or oral, in their history or folklore, of any such people. Yet there is physical evidence they did exist... Crazy...
 
Jan 2016
38,422
34,111
Colorado
#48
The ancient world is a mystery...

For example, Russian archaeologists believe there existed a now extinct civilization in Western Siberia in the ancient era, who built massive circular fortress cities of wood and stone, like so

They have found some remains, so evidence of this. Yet otherwise have no real idea exactly who these people were. The various living indigenous nations of Siberia today, all of whom had been there for tens of thousands of years, have no record, written or oral, in their history or folklore, of any such people. Yet there is physical evidence they did exist... Crazy...
There is also this recently recognized early civilization in the Oxus River Valley region of Central Asia, which was contemporaneous with the Indus Valley or Harappan Civilization:

Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex - Wikipedia

What actually irritates me a bit about this civilization is this: when I was an undergraduate studying archaeology, I wrote a paper where I was writing about ancient trade routes, and I noted that a lot of them converged on this region, and speculated that an early civilization might be present in this region, as yet undiscovered. My professor was, shall we say, very dubious, and simply said it would have already been discovered if it was there. Well, about twenty years later, Russian archaeologists started making all these discoveries there.....I almost felt like writing that professor and saying 'I told you so'.....but I refrained.....
 
Likes: The Man
Oct 2014
23,270
3,589
C-A-N-A-D-A-Eh
#49
I know of NO serious archaeologist who thinks that the great pyramids of Egypt date back to ~10,000 BC, which is what he was arguing. Surely you are not putting your support behind such an outlandish claim.
No, he wasn't saying that... if he intended that as well he can correct me.

Hey, gobekli tepe was BURIED 16000 years ago... so, it's not beyond the realm.
 
Jul 2013
44,131
46,387
Nashville, TN
#50
Fucking scientists and their science....
Dating[edit]


View of site and excavation

The imposing stratigraphy of Göbekli Tepe attests to many centuries of activity, beginning at least as early as the Epipaleolithic period. Structures identified with the succeeding period, Pre-Pottery Neolithic A (PPNA), have been dated to the 10th millennium BCE. Remains of smaller buildings identified as Pre-Pottery Neolithic B (PPNB) and dating from the 9th millennium BCE have also been unearthed.
A number of radiocarbon dates have been published:
Radiocarbon dating, another "fake" science like Climatology....and astrophysics....
 

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