Ignorant conservative "no immigrant" policies

Oct 2018
1,570
1,247
WonderfulOregon
#61
1st one is a government program trying to get todays lazy generation hard working jobs, yes that was bound to fail, I'm asking when was it tried by these businesses to hire american. and this is a giant strawman anyway, Im not sure why I entertained it, if you look back, I am for unlimited h2b's my argument has and always has been this year's alotment has been no different than years past, and the quota was set by democrats.

Before a owner can fill out the papers to request Mexican workers under he H2B program...he has to jump through a lot of hoops with his state to prove he tried to find US workers first. He even go to that States 'employment office' and states someting like..."I will need 40 men or women to 'lobster pick" for 10 weeks" The state department put it on thei 'jobs available' on the board of all State employment offices but also on the computer..and a lot of other stuff. No one applies. It 2 months work...and it basically pays pen money. Nothing that will ever be a job where you get an apartment and buy your first car.

The H2B gets people who were born on the land. Have been doing farm stuff since they could walk. Their a tuff, ready to crawl through the dirt able bodied people. If each farm in the US sent one of their children, then they would know what they are doing. But fresh from high school No way.

One day on the job and they will take the next day off because they straigned their back. Chiropractor...Employer pays On the Job injury.. next, the disability claims. They can't do and they will qualify for disabillity. Now who do you want?
 
Jul 2011
59,705
11,880
NYC/Москва
#62
Before a owner can fill out the papers to request Mexican workers under he H2B program...he has to jump through a lot of hoops with his state to prove he tried to find US workers first. He even go to that States 'employment office' and states someting like..."I will need 40 men or women to 'lobster pick" for 10 weeks" The state department put it on thei 'jobs available' on the board of all State employment offices but also on the computer..and a lot of other stuff. No one applies. It 2 months work...and it basically pays pen money. Nothing that will ever be a job where you get an apartment and buy your first car.
Incorrect all he has to show is he took out an add in a local paper, like very local, like a town paper.

The H2B gets people who were born on the land. Have been doing farm stuff since they could walk. Their a tuff, ready to crawl through the dirt able bodied people. If each farm in the US sent one of their children, then they would know what they are doing. But fresh from high school No way.

One day on the job and they will take the next day off because they straigned their back. Chiropractor...Employer pays On the Job injury.. next, the disability claims. They can't do and they will qualify for disabillity. Now who do you want?


You do most of the h2b's go to resort workers, right?
 
Jul 2015
2,693
1,608
Maryland USA
#63
You are just making shit up. training someone to pick crab takes 10 mins, they become efficient at it in a day.
While I love crab meat, just give me a crab cake or a crab meat cocktail; I'm not going to sit there and pick the darn things. But as a resident a Maryland, I have been to several crab feasts. At some point there will most assuredly be a debate on the proper way to pick a crab.
 
Jul 2011
59,705
11,880
NYC/Москва
#64
While I love crab meat, just give me a crab cake or a crab meat cocktail; I'm not going to sit there and pick the darn things. But as a resident a Maryland, I have been to several crab feasts. At some point there will most assuredly be a debate on the proper way to pick a crab.


This kid is a pro.


I loves me some blue crab!
 
Oct 2018
1,570
1,247
WonderfulOregon
#65
Certifying Officer (CO)
State Workforce Agency (SWA)


U.S. Code of Federal Regulations

Regulations most recently checked for updates: Dec 02, 2018


All TitlesTitle 20Chapter VPart 655Subpart B -
Labor Certification Process for Temporary Agricultural Employment in the United States (H-2A Workers)



§ 655.100 - Scope and purpose of subpart B - U S CITIZENS

This subpart sets out the procedures established by the Secretary of the United States Department of Labor (the Secretary) under the authority given in 8 U.S.C. 1188 to acquire information sufficient to make factual determinations of:

(a) Whether there are sufficient able, willing, and qualified United States (U.S.) workers available to perform the temporary and seasonal agricultural employment for which an employer desires to import non-immigrant foreign workers (H-2A workers);
and
(b) Whether the employment of H-2A workers will adversely affect the wages and working conditions of workers in the U.S. similarly employed.

PRE FILING PROCEDURES - US CITIZENS

§ 655.120 - Offered wage rate. (U S Citizens)
(a) To comply with its obligation under § 655.122(l), an employer must offer, advertise in its recruitment, and pay a wage that is the highest of the AEWR, the prevailing hourly wage or piece rate, the agreed-upon collective bargaining wage, or the Federal or State minimum wage, except where a special procedure is approved for an occupation or specific class of agricultural employment.


(b) If the prevailing hourly wage rate or piece rate is adjusted during a work contract, and is higher than the highest of the AEWR, the prevailing wage, the agreed-upon collective bargaining wage, or the Federal or State minimum wage, in effect at the time the work is performed, the employer must pay that higher prevailing wage or piece rate, upon notice to the employer by the Department.

(c) The OFLC Administrator will publish, at least once in each calendar year, on a date to be determined by the OFLC Administrator, the AEWRs for each State as a notice in the Federal Register.
=====================

§ 655.121 - Job orders (US CITIZENS)

(a) Area of intended employment.

(1) Prior to filing an Application for Temporary Employment Certification, the employer must submit a job order FOR A U.S. CITIZEN AT THE STATE WORK FORCE OFFICE,

Form ETA-790, to the SWA serving the area of intended employment for intrastate clearance, identifying it as a job order to be placed in connection with a future Application for Temporary Employment Certification for H-2A workers.

The employer must submit this job order no more than 75 calendar days and no fewer than 60 calendar days before the date of need. If the job opportunity is located in more than one State within the same area of intended employment, the employer may submit a job order to any one of the SWAs having jurisdiction over the anticipated worksites.

(2) Where the job order is being placed in connection with a future master application
(OF THE TEMPORARY EMPLOYMENT CERTIFICATION BECAUSE THERE IS A POSSIBLY NO US WORKERS WILL APPLY AND THIS IS THE 2ND METHOD TO FIND WORKERS H-2BA)

.....to be filed by an association of agricultural employers as a joint employer, the association may submit a single job order to be placed in the name of the association on behalf of all employers that will be duly named on the Application for Temporary Employment Certification.

(3) The job order submitted to the SWA must satisfy the requirements for agricultural clearance orders in 20 CFR part 653, subpart F and the requirements set forth in § 655.122.

(b) SWA review. (State Work fore Administration - recruiter for US CITIZENS)

(1) The SWA will review the contents of the job order for compliance with the requirements specified in 20 CFR part 653, subpart F and this subpart, and will work with the employer to address any noted deficiencies. The SWA must notify the employer in writing of any deficiencies in its job order no later than 7 calendar days after it has been submitted. The SWA notification will direct the employer to respond to the noted deficiencies. The employer must respond to the deficiencies noted by the SWA within 5 calendar days after receipt of the SWA notification. The SWA must respond to the employer's response within 3 calendar days.

(Employer can now continue using methods for US citizans, but also can starts the Application for Temporary Employment certification process)

(2)EMPLOYER - If, after providing responses to the deficiencies noted by the SWA, the employer is not able to resolve the deficiencies with the SWA, the employer may file an Application for Temporary Employment Certification pursuant to the emergency filing procedures contained in § 655.134, with a statement describing the nature of the dispute and demonstrating compliance with its requirements under this section. In the event the SWA does not respond within the stated timelines, the employer may use the emergency filing procedures noted above.

If upon review of the Application for Temporary Employment Certification and the job order and all other relevant information, the CO concludes that the job order is acceptable, the CO will direct the SWA to place the job order into intrastate and interstate clearance and otherwise process the Application in accordance with the procedures contained in § 655.134(c). If the CO determines the job order is not acceptable, the CO will issue a Notice of Deficiency to the employer under § 655.143 of this subpart directing the employer to modify the job order pursuant to paragraph (e) of this section The Notice of Deficiency will offer the employer the right to appeal.

(c) Intrastate clearance. Upon its clearance of the job order, the SWA must promptly place the job order in intrastate clearance and commence recruitment of U.S. workers. Where the employer's job order references an area of intended employment which falls within the jurisdiction of more than one SWA, the originating SWA will also forward a copy of the approved job order to the other SWAs serving the area of intended employment.

(d) Duration of job order posting. The SWA must keep the job order on its active file until the end of the recruitment period, as set forth in § 655.135(d), and must refer each U.S. worker who applies....
(or on whose behalf an Application for Temporary Employment Certification is made) for the job opportunity.


(e) Modifications to the job order. (1) Prior to the issuance of the final determination, the CO may require modifications to the job order when the CO determines that the offer of employment does not contain all the minimum benefits, wages, and working condition provisions. Such modifications must be made or certification will be denied pursuant to § 655.164 of this subpart.

(2) The employer may request a modification of the job order, Form ETA-790, prior to the submission of an Application for Temporary Employment Certification. However, the employer may not reject referrals against the job order based upon a failure on the part of the applicant to meet the amended criteria, if such referral was made prior to the amendment of the job order. The employer may not amend the job order on or after the date of filing an Application for Temporary Employment Certification.

(3) The employer must provide all workers recruited in connection with the Application for Temporary Employment Certification with a copy of the modified job order or work contract which reflects the amended terms and conditions, on the first day of employment, in accordance with § 655.122(q), or as soon as practicable, whichever comes first.

20 CFR 655.100 - Scope and purpose of subpart B.


Part 1
 
Oct 2018
1,570
1,247
WonderfulOregon
#66
Part 2

=============================

Certifying Officer (CO)
State Workforce Agency (SWA)

U.S. Code of Federal Regulations

§ 655.150 - Interstate clearance of job order.
(a) SWA posts in interstate clearance system. The SWA must promptly place the job order in interstate clearance to all States designated by the CO. At a minimum, the CO will instruct the SWA to transmit a copy of its active job order to all States listed in the job order as anticipated worksites covering the area of intended employment.
(b) Duration of posting. Each of the SWAs to which the job order was transmitted must keep the job order on its active file until 50 percent of the contract term has elapsed, and must refer each qualified U.S. worker who applies (or on whose behalf an application is made) for the job opportunity.

§ 655.151 - Newspaper advertisements.
(a) The employer must place an advertisement (in a language other than English, where the CO determines appropriate) on 2 separate days, which may be consecutive, one of which must be a Sunday (except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section), in a newspaper of general circulation serving the area of intended employment and is appropriate to the occupation and the workers likely to apply for the job opportunity. Newspaper advertisements must satisfy the requirements set forth in § 655.152.
(b) If the job opportunity is located in a rural area that does not have a newspaper with a Sunday edition, the CO may direct the employer, in place of a Sunday edition, to advertise in the regularly published daily edition with the widest circulation in the area of intended employment.

§ 655.152 - Advertising requirements.
All advertising conducted to satisfy the required recruitment activities under § 655.151 must meet the requirements set forth in this section and must contain terms and conditions of employment which are not less favorable than those offered to the H-2A workers. All advertising must contain the following information:
(a) The employer's name, or in the event that a master application will be filed by an association, a statement indicating that the name and location of each member of the association can be obtained from the SWA of the State in which the advertisement is run;
(b) The geographic area of intended employment with enough specificity to apprise applicants of any travel requirements and where applicants will likely have to reside to perform the services or labor;
(c) A description of the job opportunity for which certification is sought with sufficient information to apprise U.S. workers of services or labor to be performed and the anticipated start and end dates of employment of the job opportunity;
(d) The wage offer, or in the event that there are multiple wage offers (such as where a master application will be filed by an association and/or where there are multiple crop activities for a single employer), the range of applicable wage offers and, where a master application will be filed by an association, a statement indicating that the rate(s) applicable to each employer can be obtained from the SWA of the State in which the advertisement is run;
(e) The three-fourths guarantee specified in § 655.122(i);
(f) If applicable, a statement that work tools, supplies, and equipment will be provided at no cost to the worker;
(g) A statement that housing will be made available at no cost to workers, including U.S. workers who cannot reasonably return to their permanent residence at the end of each working day;
(h) A statement that transportation and subsistence expenses to the worksite will be provided by the employer or paid by the employer upon completion of 50 percent of the work contract, or earlier, if appropriate;
(i) A statement that the position is temporary and a specification of the total number of job openings the employer intends to fill;
(j) A statement directing applicants to apply for the job opportunity at the nearest office of the SWA in the State in which the advertisement appeared. Employers who wish to require interviews must conduct those interviews by phone or provide a procedure for the interviews to be conducted in the location where the worker is being recruited at little or no cost to the worker. Employers cannot provide potential H-2A workers more favorable treatment with respect to the requirement and conduct of interviews; and
(k) Contact information for the applicable SWA and, if available, the job order number.

§ 655.153 - Contact with former U.S. employees.
The employer must contact, by mail or other effective means, its former U.S. workers (except those who were dismissed for cause or who abandoned the worksite) employed by the employer in the occupation at the place of employment during the previous year and solicit their return to the job. This contact must occur during the period of time that the job order is being circulated by the SWA(s) for interstate clearance and documentation sufficient to prove contact must be maintained in the event of an audit.

§ 655.154 - Additional positive recruitment.
(a) Where to conduct additional positive recruitment. The employer must conduct positive recruitment within a multistate region of traditional or expected labor supply where the CO finds that there are a significant number of qualified U.S. workers who, if recruited, would be willing to make themselves available for work at the time and place needed.
(b) Additional requirements should be comparable to non-H-2A employers in the area. The CO will ensure that the effort, including the location(s) and method(s) of the positive recruitment required of the potential H-2A employer must be no less than the normal recruitment efforts of non-H-2A agricultural employers of comparable or smaller size in the area of intended employment, and the kind and degree of recruitment efforts which the potential H-2A employer made to obtain foreign workers.
(c) Nature of the additional positive recruitment. The CO will describe the precise nature of the additional positive recruitment but the employer will not be required to conduct positive recruitment in more than three States for each area of intended employment listed on the employer's application.
(d) Proof of recruitment. The CO will specify the documentation or other supporting evidence that must be maintained by the employer as proof that the positive recruitment requirements were met.

§ 655.155 - Referrals of U.S. workers.
SWAs may only refer for employment individuals who have been apprised of all the material terms and conditions of employment and have indicated, by accepting referral to the job opportunity, that he or she is qualified, able, willing, and available for employment.

§ 655.156 - Recruitment report.
(a) Requirements of a recruitment report. The employer must prepare, sign, and date a written recruitment report. The recruitment report must be submitted on a date specified by the CO in the Notice of Acceptance set forth in § 655.141 and contain the following information:
(1) Identify the name of each recruitment source;
(2) State the name and contact information of each U.S. worker who applied or was referred to the job opportunity up to the date of the preparation of the recruitment report, and the disposition of each worker;
(3) Confirm that former U.S. employees were contacted and by what means; and
(4) If applicable, for each U.S. worker who applied for the position but was not hired, explain the lawful job-related reason(s) for not hiring the U.S. worker.
(b) Duty to update recruitment report. The employer must continue to maintain the recruitment report throughout the recruitment period including the 50 percent period. The updated report is not to be automatically submitted to the Department, but must be made available in the event of a post-certification audit or upon request by authorized representatives of the Secretary.

§ 655.157 - Withholding of U.S. workers prohibited.
(a) Filing a complaint. Any employer who has reason to believe that a person or entity has willfully and knowingly withheld U.S. workers prior to the arrival at the worksite of H-2A workers in order to force the hiring of U.S. workers during the recruitment period, as set forth in § 655.135(d), may submit a written complaint to the CO. The complaint must clearly identify the person or entity who the employer believes has withheld the U.S. workers, and must specify sufficient facts to support the allegation (e.g., dates, places, numbers and names of U.S. workers) which will permit an investigation to be conducted by the CO.
(b) Duty to investigate. Upon receipt, the CO must immediately investigate the complaint. The investigation must include interviews with the employer who has submitted the complaint, the person or entity named as responsible for withholding the U.S. workers, and the individual U.S. workers whose availability has purportedly been withheld.
(c) Duty to suspend the recruitment period. Where the CO determines, after conducting the interviews required by paragraph (b) of this section, that the employer's complaint is valid and justified, the CO will immediately suspend the application of the 50 percent rule of the recruitment period, as set forth in § 655.135(d), to the employer. The CO's determination is the final decision of the Secretary.

§ 655.158 - Duration of positive recruitment.
Except as otherwise noted, the obligation to engage in positive recruitment described in §§ 655.150 through 655.154 shall terminate on the date H-2A workers depart for the employer's place of work. Unless the SWA is informed in writing of a different date, the date that is the third day preceding the employer's first date of need will be determined to be the date the H-2A workers departed for the employer's place of business.

LABOR CERTIFICATION DETERMINATIONS

§ 655.160 - Determinations.
Except as otherwise noted in this section, the CO will make a determination either to grant or deny the Application for Temporary Employment Certification no later than 30 calendar days before the date of need identified in the Application for Temporary Employment Certification. An Application for Temporary Employment Certification that is modified under § 655.142 or that otherwise does not meet the requirements for certification in this subpart is not subject to the 30-day timeframe for certification.

§ 655.161 - Criteria for certification.
(a) The criteria for certification include whether the employer has established the need for the agricultural services or labor to be performed on a temporary or seasonal basis; complied with the requirements of parts 653 and 654 of this chapter; complied with all of this subpart, including but not limited to the timeliness requirements in § 655.130(b); complied with the offered wage rate criteria in § 655.120; made all the assurances in § 655.135; and met all the recruitment obligations required by § 655.121 and § 655.152.
(b) In making a determination as to whether there are insufficient U.S. workers to fill the employer's job opportunity, the CO will count as available any U.S. worker referred by the SWA or any U.S. worker who applied (or on whose behalf an application is made) directly to the employer, but who was rejected by the employer for other than a lawful job-related reason or who has not been provided with a lawful job-related reason for rejection by the employer.

§ 655.162 - Approved certification.
If temporary labor certification is granted, the CO will send the certified Application for Temporary Employment Certification and a Final Determination letter to the employer by means normally assuring next-day delivery and a copy, if appropriate, to the employer's agent or attorney.

===============================


You can see why farms (AG) liked using illegals...so cheap


1 Illegal - Employers does not have any responnsiility to keep track of these workers. Every night they have to find sleeping accommodates, where to get food and get back to the emploer at day break...It's cheap (under the the H-2A he becomes responsible for an illegal)

2. U S Citizen - The citizen will be under US employment rules, min wage, breaks, overtime - (g) A statement that housing will be made available at no cost to workers, including U.S. workers who cannot reasonably return to their permanent residence at the end of each working day;

3 H-2A worker...Employer is responsible for
Meals. The employer either must provide each worker with three meals a day or must furnish free and convenient cooking and kitchen facilities to the workers that will enable the workers to prepare their own meals. Where the employer provides the meals, the job offer must state the charge, if any, to the worker for such meals.

§ 655.173 - Setting meal charges; petition for higher meal charges.

(a) Meal charges. an employer may charge workers up to $10.64 for providing them with three meals per day.

(d) Housing. (1) Obligation to provide housing. The employer must provide housing at no cost to the H-2A workers and those workers in corresponding employment who are not reasonably able to return to their residence within the same day.

==============================

Some odd stuff ...like Reinstate' program (? ) Legal action (?)


There is a lot to it. Seems when you start to coordinate the process for US citizens, your starting the process to show you have looked..and then you also do the Newspaper...etc
 
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