Is Donald Trump A Good Role Model For America's Young Men And Boys?

Apr 2014
36,241
22,786
Maryland
#11
Well, in terms of business acumen, work ethic, etc. He's done a lot that could be modelled. Taking few hundred million and turning into over a billion, a very high success to failure rate of business ventures above the average, was an outsider who with personality, planning and persistence through opposition became POTUS.

On the other hand, he has a lot of personal issues that would make others in similar positions as better...
He probably doesn’t have over 1 billion and that’s probably why he doesn’t want to show his tax return.
 
Jul 2013
1,245
1,654
U.S.A.
#12
I've been wanting to pose this question for some time, but a recent thread on masculinity has prompted me to finally bring it forth. There's been a discussion on 'toxic masculinity' and on 'traditional masculinity', and whether the latter is harmful to men and boys. It was actually an interesting discussion, but the person of Donald Trump was ruled out-of-bounds, for some reason. So I am bringing him up here, and posing these questions:
Okay. I'll bite.

BigLeRoy said:
(1) Do you think Donald Trump exemplifies 'traditional masculinity'? If so, how?
"Traditional masculinity" is a fairly vague term, really. Perhaps what's meant here is the sort of peculiarly American notion of the rugged individualist who doesn't express emotions, doesn't shy away from a fight but is scrupulous about not taking advantage of a situation or provoking unnecessary hostility, and overall has a rigid sense of honor, fairness, and duty. In that case Donald Trump doesn't exemplify "traditional masculinity" in the slightest. On the other hand, if what's meant is more along the lines of taciturn belligerence, juvenile petulance, and a tendency toward irrational violence -- often directed toward those unlikely or unable to hit back -- then Trump exemplifies that quite nicely.

BigLeRoy said:
(2) Do you think Donald Trump is a good role model for the young men and boys of America?
No. Does anyone, as a practical matter, think this?

BigLeRoy said:
(3) Would you want your son to grow up to be like Donald Trump?
God, no.

BigLeRoy said:
(4) Is Donald Trump's behavior towards women, in particular, something we would want our young men and boys to pattern themselves after, and imitate? Is that 'manly' behavior?
No, no one should want old men, young men, boys, or anyone else to emulate Trump's behavior toward women. Is his behavior toward women "manly?" See my answer to question number one above.

BigLeRoy said:
(5) To what extent does the behavior of Donald Trump resemble the behavior of an alpha male chimpanzee?
Are we talking Pan troglodytes or Pan paniscus? Perhaps Trump shows elements of both here or there. But in truth, I'd argue that his behavior doesn't much resemble the behavior of an "alpha male" of either species. A troop leader has to earn that role, and any truly successful, long-term leader will do that using some combination of alliances based on trust, respect, and affection, as well as intimidation. The mix will vary, both within and especially among species. But there will always be a mix.

Trump has status because of money. Money and status that he inherited, for the most part. By all accounts he's done very little in his life to earn trust and respect, and the extent to which he is able to intimidate is mostly a function of his inherited wealth and status. I doubt he's ever stood toe to toe with any foe or competitor with his own personal safety on the line. So no, he's not very much like an alpha male chimpanzee at all.

Cheers.
 
Oct 2014
26,614
4,282
C-A-N-A-D-A-Eh
#13
LOL, got most of his money to start from his daddy, 4 bankruptcies (including the ones in NJ that left his investors high and dry), Trump University, Trump Steaks, Trump Men's Clothing line. Has not built a single building in over 25 years. Only "licenses" his name. Stiffed contractors and hired illegals. Has been sued multiple times.

Like I said, thanks for the best laugh I have had all day!!
Yes, he did get his start with that stake in the company (not liquid money as implied).

4 business venture failures out of something like 40 business ventures over something like 40 years. The stats say Trump should have had 2 that had not failed by now.

People that invest in startups should understand that these investments are typically go big or fail... And with Trumps track record, I wouldn't be too surprised that people figured the odds were good.

I had worked construction for quite some time, you might be surprised just how many people show up with the tools but no real skills. Not being paid, that's what happens when subcontractors work is subpar. That's just industry standard, most subcontractors prefer to get paid so they bring it up to par so they can pay their guys. The worst case I saw was a subcontractor (as in guy with his tools that has a few helpers) did such poor work and with such a speed that they wound up suing him back for the money paid... That one is pretty rare though.

Most any modestly successful company will often have at least one lawsuit in process at any given time, if not multiple. I was fortunate when I was subcontracting to not have anything too ridiculous, mostly it just wound up in some liens that will pay out in like 40-50 years if I'm lucky.
 
Likes: spyydrr
Oct 2014
26,614
4,282
C-A-N-A-D-A-Eh
#14
He probably doesn’t have over 1 billion and that’s probably why he doesn’t want to show his tax return.
You're probably right about his worth... Being president has definitely cost him more than if he had just stayed with his businesses.

Wish we had a leader up here that cared about country that much that they would sacrifice from their own in pursuit of bettering the situation.
 
Jul 2014
59,105
47,135
CA
#15
Yes, he did get his start with that stake in the company (not liquid money as implied).

4 business venture failures out of something like 40 business ventures over something like 40 years. The stats say Trump should have had 2 that had not failed by now.

People that invest in startups should understand that these investments are typically go big or fail... And with Trumps track record, I wouldn't be too surprised that people figured the odds were good.

I had worked construction for quite some time, you might be surprised just how many people show up with the tools but no real skills. Not being paid, that's what happens when subcontractors work is subpar. That's just industry standard, most subcontractors prefer to get paid so they bring it up to par so they can pay their guys. The worst case I saw was a subcontractor (as in guy with his tools that has a few helpers) did such poor work and with such a speed that they wound up suing him back for the money paid... That one is pretty rare though.

Most any modestly successful company will often have at least one lawsuit in process at any given time, if not multiple. I was fortunate when I was subcontracting to not have anything too ridiculous, mostly it just wound up in some liens that will pay out in like 40-50 years if I'm lucky.
He got all of his seed money from his daddy - that was revealed in the blockbuster NYT report last year. He also kept bailing him out.

So yeah, his a terrible POTUS and a terrible businessman.

And nice how you keep ignoring how he fleeced people out of their money with Trump University.

That should have disqualified right there to ever run for Presidents.
 
Jan 2016
41,670
37,457
Colorado
#16
Okay. I'll bite.



"Traditional masculinity" is a fairly vague term, really. Perhaps what's meant here is the sort of peculiarly American notion of the rugged individualist who doesn't express emotions, doesn't shy away from a fight but is scrupulous about not taking advantage of a situation or provoking unnecessary hostility, and overall has a rigid sense of honor, fairness, and duty. In that case Donald Trump doesn't exemplify "traditional masculinity" in the slightest. On the other hand, if what's meant is more along the lines of taciturn belligerence, juvenile petulance, and a tendency toward irrational violence -- often directed toward those unlikely or unable to hit back -- then Trump exemplifies that quite nicely.



No. Does anyone, as a practical matter, think this?



God, no.



No, no one should want old men, young men, boys, or anyone else to emulate Trump's behavior toward women. Is his behavior toward women "manly?" See my answer to question number one above.



Are we talking Pan troglodytes or Pan paniscus? Perhaps Trump shows elements of both here or there. But in truth, I'd argue that his behavior doesn't much resemble the behavior of an "alpha male" of either species. A troop leader has to earn that role, and any truly successful, long-term leader will do that using some combination of alliances based on trust, respect, and affection, as well as intimidation. The mix will vary, both within and especially among species. But there will always be a mix.

Trump has status because of money. Money and status that he inherited, for the most part. By all accounts he's done very little in his life to earn trust and respect, and the extent to which he is able to intimidate is mostly a function of his inherited wealth and status. I doubt he's ever stood toe to toe with any foe or competitor with his own personal safety on the line. So no, he's not very much like an alpha male chimpanzee at all.

Cheers.
We mostly agree, except possibly on the alpha male chimpanzee bit. I have no idea how Donald Trump manages to gain so much loyalty among so many of his subordinates for so long, but that does all seem to be evaporating on him now. Anyhow, he certainly seems to be exhibiting a classic alpha male chimpanzee pose in this photograph, which is how I imagine him trying to communicate with an extraterrestrial alien:

1547278865777.png

I would route any arriving extraterrestrial aliens to Angela Merkel, if we know what's good for us......Just sayin'.
 
Jun 2014
43,184
42,042
United States
#17
He got all of his seed money from his daddy - that was revealed in the blockbuster NYT report last year. He also kept bailing him out.

So yeah, his a terrible POTUS and a terrible businessman.

And nice how you keep ignoring how he fleeced people out of their money with Trump University.

That should have disqualified right there to ever run for Presidents.

Actually, it was 6 bankruptcies. Trump would be wealthier today had he simply taken the money that his father initially gave him and invested it in mutual funds.
 
Likes: Isalexi
Dec 2006
86,086
63,435
In the Witness Protection Program
#18
He got all of his seed money from his daddy - that was revealed in the blockbuster NYT report last year. He also kept bailing him out.

So yeah, his a terrible POTUS and a terrible businessman.

And nice how you keep ignoring how he fleeced people out of their money with Trump University.

That should have disqualified right there to ever run for Presidents.
And a tax cheat
 
Likes: MaryAnne
Jul 2011
46,681
8,245
NYC
#19
I've been wanting to pose this question for some time, but a recent thread on masculinity has prompted me to finally bring it forth. There's been a discussion on 'toxic masculinity' and on 'traditional masculinity', and whether the latter is harmful to men and boys. It was actually an interesting discussion, but the person of Donald Trump was ruled out-of-bounds, for some reason. So I am bringing him up here, and posing these questions:

(1) Do you think Donald Trump exemplifies 'traditional masculinity'? If so, how?

(2) Do you think Donald Trump is a good role model for the young men and boys of America?

(3) Would you want your son to grow up to be like Donald Trump?

(4) Is Donald Trump's behavior towards women, in particular, something we would want our young men and boys to pattern themselves after, and imitate? Is that 'manly' behavior?

(5) To what extent does the behavior of Donald Trump resemble the behavior of an alpha male chimpanzee?



I don’t think anyone who has used racial slurs, talks about masturbating to pictures of the 1st lady and brags about having sex with girls is a role model. Neither is trump.

1. No

2. Nope, or like the person I described abbove

3. Same

4. Nope just like the person I describe above

5. None, that’s just stupid.
 
Likes: pragmatic
Apr 2012
56,309
41,212
Englewood,Ohio
#20
We mostly agree, except possibly on the alpha male chimpanzee bit. I have no idea how Donald Trump manages to gain so much loyalty among so many of his subordinates for so long, but that does all seem to be evaporating on him now. Anyhow, he certainly seems to be exhibiting a classic alpha male chimpanzee pose in this photograph, which is how I imagine him trying to communicate with an extraterrestrial alien:

View attachment 20699

I would route any arriving extraterrestrial aliens to Angela Merkel, if we know what's good for us......Just sayin'.
I think Chimpanzee Males have more character than Trump.

BTW, that picture was Trump arriving at the 911 plane site. 93.

https://www.history.com/topics/21st-century/united-airlines-flight-93-crashes-in-pennsylvania-video
 
Likes: BigLeRoy

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