Jesus Christ: Who would you say he is?

Dec 2014
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The Apostles were eye-witnesses and all were persecuted except one.
However, 11 Apostles were not 'many of the early Christians'. Early Christianity is considered to be the period up to about 325AD, and some of these deaths are the stuff of Catholic mythology, such as the execution of Paul.

Also, there are many people in the world today who believe in space aliens.
Which kind of proves my point. People will believe whatever they like on the flimsiest of evidence and they are willing to die for it. Do you remember the mass suicide of the Hale-Bopp cult?
 
Nov 2018
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However, 11 Apostles were not 'many of the early Christians'. Early Christianity is considered to be the period up to about 325AD, and some of these deaths are the stuff of Catholic mythology, such as the execution of Paul.



Which kind of proves my point. People will believe whatever they like on the flimsiest of evidence and they are willing to die for it. Do you remember the mass suicide of the Hale-Bopp cult?
Yes, there are nuts who will commit suicide, but not many people are willing to be put under extreme torture and die for something that they know is a lie. I don't think the Apostles, who were eye witnesses to Jesus miracles, and his resurrection, are all liars and who traveled around the ancient world preaching the good news. They knew what they saw, they believed what they saw and they died because they knew it was real.
 
Jun 2014
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Yes, there are nuts who will commit suicide, but not many people are willing to be put under extreme torture and die for something that they know is a lie. I don't think the Apostles, who were eye witnesses to Jesus miracles, and his resurrection, are all liars and who traveled around the ancient world preaching the good news. They knew what they saw, they believed what they saw and they died because they knew it was real.

Why is it no longer real?

What happened to the miracles? They weren't supposed to just stop happening.
 
Likes: Friday13
Dec 2014
13,910
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NWOHQ
Yes, there are nuts who will commit suicide, but not many people are willing to be put under extreme torture and die for something that they know is a lie. I don't think the Apostles, who were eye witnesses to Jesus miracles, and his resurrection, are all liars and who traveled around the ancient world preaching the good news. They knew what they saw, they believed what they saw and they died because they knew it was real.

Well, that is if one can take the second hand testimony as 'gospel' in the first place. Remember, the gospels are merely hearsay and the attribution was arbitrary, for we do not know who wrote them, but we do have an idea of when they were written and that is much later. Furthermore, these questionable accounts demand that the reader suspend the laws of physics, and for these reasons they are considered to be questionable.

The Gospel of Mark probably dates from c. AD 66–70, Matthew and Luke around AD 85–90, and John AD 90–110. Despite the traditional ascriptions all four are anonymous, and none were written by eyewitnesses. Like the rest of the New Testament, they were written in Greek.

Gospel - Wikipedia

Furthermore, as I stated previously, the martyrs believed that Jesus's return was imminent and that they believed in this wholeheartedly, and obviously they did not know that their belief system was possibly/probably false ~ no adherent of any religion believes that the religion is false. It is absurd to suggest they died for that which they knew was a lie ~ of course they didn't know.

The Hale-Bopp cult believed in their dogma enough to throw away their lives. What is the difference?
 
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Jun 2014
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Indeed. The canon was obviously written for Hellenised Gentiles throughout the Roman Empire, and not for Christ's contemporaries. Could humble fishermen etc. even write in this day and age? Let alone in Demotic Greek.

Yes, they could -- with a little help from the Holy Spirit. ;)