Judge says teen who filmed himself raping a girl deserves leniency

The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
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With equal (if not greater) respect, my friend, I understand the point you are making. However, it is not a valid response to anything I wrote.

The boy has been accused of, and admitted to, rape - I am not minimising the crime, nor am I claiming that teenage (and younger) children are incapable of doing horrible things. The crime is a serious one, but IMO, not at the level of enormity which warrants charging a child as an adult (in fact, no crime warrants that in any civilised jurisdiction). A juvenile court should be entirely competent to deal with this.
My point is, one's age shouldn't serve as a Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free card, particularly for serious, heinous crimes.

For instance, should a boy be tried for assault as an adult, for a regular school yard scrap? No, in most cases.

But, if that fight got out of control, if, say, weapons were produced and made use of, and if someone was severely injured (or, God forbid, killed) as a result?

Than, yes, he should face the full consequences of his actions. Just like a grown man would. You want to act like a man, than you must bear same level of responsibility.

We are not talking about CHILDREN here, remember. We are not talking about 10 year old Bart Simpson spraying graffiti on his school's walls.

15 or 16 year olds are not "kids". They are absolutely old enough to understand right from wrong and to know what the hell they are doing.

That's my opinion, anyway...
 

HCProf

Council Hall
Sep 2014
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USA
The fact remains that he is still a child. Who did a terrible thing, but a child nevertheless. What's the point in having such a distinction if it can be ignored when the crime outrages the public enough? That's vengeance, not law.
I disagree. This kid is a danger to society. If he goes the juvenile route, like Ian said, his slate is wiped clean in two years. He showed no remorse for what he did proven by how he kept bragging and circulating the video. He will do this again in college to another woman. If he were 13, I would see your point, but a 16 year old who commits rape just stepped into adulthood by his actions. This case went beyond date rape, where both parties were smashed. He admitted to rape on video. He needs to be removed from society and provided help to prevent rapes like this in the future.
 

The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
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Toronto
The fact remains that he is still a child. Who did a terrible thing, but a child nevertheless. What's the point in having such a distinction if it can be ignored when the crime outrages the public enough? That's vengeance, not law.
No, he isn't. A 16 year old isn't a "child", he is a YOUNG MAN. I sure as hell was, at that age. And did lots of stupid shit, which I, and nobody else, am responsible for. Some of which I am now literally paying for today (financially supporting a son I had fathered back then, in Moscow).

If you are old enough to fuck and to potentially become a parent, you are responsible for your actions, period.
 
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No, he isn't. A 16 year old isn't a "child", he is a YOUNG MAN. I sure as hell was, at that age. And did lots of stupid shit, which I, and nobody else, am responsible for. Some of which I am now literally paying for today (financially supporting a son I had fathered back then, in Moscow).

If you are old enough to fuck and to potentially become a parent, you are responsible for your actions, period.
Agreed. I'm shocked how regularly such a position is taken as sexism.
 
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The Man

Former Staff
Jul 2011
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Agreed. I'm shocked how regularly such a position is taken as sexism.
Hell, my grandfather was 15 when he joined the Red Army as a volunteer, out of his school, to fight in WWII. He celebrated his 16th birthday in fucking Stalingrad, no joke. I doubt anyone would have called him a "kid"... lol
 

HCProf

Council Hall
Sep 2014
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USA
Hell, my grandfather was 15 when he joined the Red Army as a volunteer, out of his school, to fight in WWII. He celebrated his 16th birthday in fucking Stalingrad, no joke. I doubt anyone would have called him a "kid"... lol
My Dad lied about his age for WWII. He was only 16 when he joined. His friends were leaving and he didn't want to be left behind in a small town. His discharge papers show him two years older than his actual age. The thing is, this is not normal behavior for the majority of 16 year old boys. I know many teen boys and they would never do something like this....even if drunk. There is something gravely wrong with a man who rapes, films, and brags about having sex with a unconscious girl or woman....regardless if they are 16 or 50. The crime is the same.
 

Rasselas

Moderator
Feb 2010
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Like what?
Like the ability to hold juveniles beyond their 18th birthday. Like setting a different date for when a record is expunged. Like providing alternatives to adult-like incarceration for juveniles.

It does not suddenly click into "adult" mode at any given point, however ... it is a continuum, more quickly for some than others, and some may not even get there, while others may indeed get there in adolescence. That is why we have a cutoff age - and why we have exceptions.
You're right that it's a continuum, but we understand much better than you represent here. Most of the human body stops developing at about age 18--few people get much taller after that. But brain development, particularly in the frontal lobe where executive function lies, doesn't stop developing until 25. Yes, some get to maturity faster than others, but is there evidence that this young criminal (or any others) has reached maturity simply because he's committed a heinous crime? We want to try him as an adult to placate our own desire for rough justice in response to a rough crime, but any study of human developmental psychology shows that children at 16 are still children--even if they are going badly wrong. Age 18 is out cut off point for most things, but it's arbitrary and based more on the needs of our society (for military recruits and relief from parenthood) and that physically apparent adulthood--not a considered discussion of how human brains (or the brain of an individual defendant0 work.

Decisions about how to try an adolescent should be based on an independent judgment about their level of brain development and the likelihood (or even possibility) of remediating their psychological deficiencies.
 
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Rasselas

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Hell, my grandfather was 15 when he joined the Red Army as a volunteer, out of his school, to fight in WWII. He celebrated his 16th birthday in fucking Stalingrad, no joke. I doubt anyone would have called him a "kid"... lol
No doubt. On the other hand, as a soldier his behavior was very closely controlled, with strict limits and strict justice for broaching them. We're talking about executive function, and by definition soldiers in the lower ranks don't get to have much of that.
 
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Jan 2012
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I'm going to play Devil's Advocate a bit here for a number of reasons...

Certainly a bizarre/idiotic thing for the kid write.

Gotta wonder what was going on his pea brain...
Actually most teens, not just boys but also girls often use language this way. They play act at being an adult. Also have you listened to most of their favorite influences in the media? Such braggadocio and imagery is very common. It makes me think many of you haven't listened to a contemporary song on the radio in roughly 10-15 years.

A not even rough example...



This psychopath knew exactly what he was doing. He was coherent enough to film, text and acknowledged what he was doing as rape. His parents need to find him a good therapist. He will do this again. What an embarrassing son to his parents. He should be tried as an adult. He knows the difference between right and wrong since he is part of this wonderful family according to the Judge. He is old enough to hold a job and drive a car.
I'm always a bit shocked by this one way acceptance of both consent and responsibility. So she gets drunk and is completely excused from all her actions. He gets drunk and not only should be held accountable for his actions but tried as an adult.

The reasoning has to work two ways. If she couldn't consent to her actions because she was drunk then how can he be held liable for his actions when he was drunk?

AS a father of two girls I can definitely understand this mindset. It's dark, but yeah I get it.
Would you only press charges a period of time later (several months later) when the video was still being circulated instead of at the time of the alleged crime?

I disagree. This kid is a danger to society. If he goes the juvenile route, like Ian said, his slate is wiped clean in two years. He showed no remorse for what he did proven by how he kept bragging and circulating the video. He will do this again in college to another woman. If he were 13, I would see your point, but a 16 year old who commits rape just stepped into adulthood by his actions. This case went beyond date rape, where both parties were smashed. He admitted to rape on video. He needs to be removed from society and provided help to prevent rapes like this in the future.
He is alleged to have raped due to her being unable to consent due to bring drunk. There was no age difference and both of them were drunk so if he is a rapist then so is she.

I understand older laws made the man exclusively responsible for getting consent but then we did things like allow women to vote and own land and being fully legal and responsible human beings and that is a two way street.

She didn't fight this act. She didn't say no. She didn't allege she was raped afterwards. What happened is two kids got drunk and had consensual sex to whatever degree two sixteen year olds who are drinking are able to understand or consent to anything. He made a video of it. He circulated it. When he was asked to stop he either didn't stop or lied about it or the friends kept sharing it. The parents pressed charges several months later.

To hit on a few points made in this thread....

No one said the family is rich. Within this thread someone specifically said good family is code for rich and now the kid and his family are suddenly rich.

We haven't seen the video but the presumption that it gives clear detail of the act. It doesn't. From the news descriptions it would appear they were doing it "doggy style" and you see her head and part of her torso is bare. I'd presume based off media descriptions that you don't see him.

So a the back of head hair, a torso, and I'd guess not well lit.

She clearly was profoundly drunk which makes her.... a terrible witness.

So what you have alleged is a drunk 16 year old boy having unforced sex with a drunk 16 year old girl. Neither party can consent if they are drunk. He could claim she answered affirmatively and her actions would appear to show that the sex was not forced upon her. She would testify that she drank too much and doesn't remember anything.

Does the court hold a 16 year old boy responsible as an expert at judging the sobriety and ability of the 16 year old girl to consent? By what means does it do that?

It's clear with the timeframe that no one was upset about the act. They were upset about the video. Statutory rape can't be filed against the boy because they are in the same peer group. There was no age difference to take advantage of by him or her. So the real issue is they wanted the video stopped and I'd guess that given the nature of it, they can't really prove it is him or her even though "everybody knows" it is the two of them.

So now...it becomes rape....which speaks to her motive. An unreliable witness with a questionable motive... they can scream at the judge all they want but I can't see how this goes better else where. It might go long and expensive but I can't see anyone getting a conviction.
 
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I am (can't think of a better word) FLUMMOXED nearly to the point of cognitive dissonance at HOW this moronic judge came to his decision ???

The video alone should have insured this little bastards LOOOOOONNGGGG prison sentence. He FILMED IT, then labeled it RAPE for the world to see. This wasn't a simple "lapse in judgement". This is pure "affluensa" !!! This kids thinks the laws don't apply to him. He KNEW what he was doing was wrong yet he did it anyway while making a video of it !!! He then TOLD THE WORLD what he had done by posting the video. Then in THE most arrogant of his moves LABELED it for what it was .... RAPE !!!

Any one care to wager on what the prison sentence would have been had this been a black kid from the ghetto ??

This is one of those cases where the feds really should step in and retry this little bastard on federal charges. A few years sin a federal super max would cure him of his affluensa. But sadly we have a president that thinks sexual assault is no big deal and high cabinet members who protected a pedophile rapist. So the chances of the DoJ stepping in are slim to none. Let's hope there's a recall election or impeachment for this judge.