Making America Great Again - What Will Work

Mar 2012
58,084
39,646
New Hampshire
#11
That's for sure. College grads are out of work in many cases, yet we still are trying to prepare everyone for college, which is becoming less and less affordable.

The welfare state is not a solution either. People need something to do, some job that needs doing. If all they get is bread and circuses, we'll soon go the way of the Romans. Humans are not cats, willing to sleep all day as long as someone is feeding them.

Here's a riddle for liberal arts majors: What's the difference between a liberal arts major and a large pizza?


A large pizza can feed a family of four.
Agree. Dont know what the answer is but I can tell you that around here its the women that are already suffering. Many of their jobs in retail are gone to the internet and serving and working with food is being heavily automated. Shift work is usually seen in manufacturing and if thats gone overseas thats another avenue closed. They need those moms hour jobs or non 8-5 hours and there are fewer and fewer. I keep asking people whatever happened to working from home but people seem to not like that either. So we are slowly slipping down further and further. Women are far less likely to become or want to be plumbers, electricians etc so thats problematic. We are in a world of hurt and we have blinders on.
 
Feb 2011
18,197
12,916
The formerly great golden state
#12
Agree. Dont know what the answer is but I can tell you that around here its the women that are already suffering. Many of their jobs in retail are gone to the internet and serving and working with food is being heavily automated. Shift work is usually seen in manufacturing and if thats gone overseas thats another avenue closed. They need those moms hour jobs or non 8-5 hours and there are fewer and fewer. I keep asking people whatever happened to working from home but people seem to not like that either. So we are slowly slipping down further and further. Women are far less likely to become or want to be plumbers, electricians etc so thats problematic. We are in a world of hurt and we have blinders on.

Bring back the WPA?
 
Likes: bajisima
Mar 2012
58,084
39,646
New Hampshire
#13
Certainly a possibility although unions didnt like the WPA. We had a program locally back when I was in school that helped those in poverty learn skills like painting and janitorial services and the unions screamed holy hell they were stealing their jobs. So that ended. But I could see it returning in some way. Although another bigger problem we will have is fewer young people paying into the tax system. So the need for much higher wages would be necessary.
 
Feb 2011
18,197
12,916
The formerly great golden state
#14
Certainly a possibility although unions didnt like the WPA. We had a program locally back when I was in school that helped those in poverty learn skills like painting and janitorial services and the unions screamed holy hell they were stealing their jobs. So that ended. But I could see it returning in some way. Although another bigger problem we will have is fewer young people paying into the tax system. So the need for much higher wages would be necessary.
Such a program would be expensive, no doubt, but still cheaper than the welfare state, and would get something done. The main thing it would accomplish would be to teach the youth the value of work, but only if participants had it better than those opting to do nothing.
 
Mar 2012
58,084
39,646
New Hampshire
#15
Such a program would be expensive, no doubt, but still cheaper than the welfare state, and would get something done. The main thing it would accomplish would be to teach the youth the value of work, but only if participants had it better than those opting to do nothing.
As I recall thats the criticism of the guaranteed basic income isnt it? Some think the proposed $1500 a month would prevent some from doing hard work learning a trade. I will say as companies have increased wages or the min wage has gone up, they claim workers are willing to do less. I work for a municipality and we had a meeting with the local Chamber of Commerce and they claim workers wont do all the work anymore. People do feel if they get paid more they dont need to do lower skilled work and want to do more challenging work.
 
Feb 2011
18,197
12,916
The formerly great golden state
#16
As I recall thats the criticism of the guaranteed basic income isnt it? Some think the proposed $1500 a month would prevent some from doing hard work learning a trade. I will say as companies have increased wages or the min wage has gone up, they claim workers are willing to do less. I work for a municipality and we had a meeting with the local Chamber of Commerce and they claim workers wont do all the work anymore. People do feel if they get paid more they dont need to do lower skilled work and want to do more challenging work.
The problem with the guaranteed basic income is that it does enable people to just refuse to work. They then find other things to do, things like tagging buildings and doing drugs.

No one wants a career in cleaning toilet and mowing grass either, but that's still preferable to doing nothing.

So, there are two separate but related problems: Providing higher level, challenging careers, and preparing people to fill those careers. I'm just not certain that anyone is up to that challenge.
 
Likes: bajisima
Jan 2014
18,193
5,183
California
#17
Sun 6-9-19 5:54 p.m.

The following are some pointers on what might help make America Great Again:

1) Manufacture Products
2) Re-institute shop class and Junior Achievement in schools (wood shop, metal shop, etc.)
3) Limit the time spent on I-phones / cell phones
4) Learn how to do something constructive while watching television
5) Throw away the lottery tickets
6) Give up on getting something for nothing and make something out of nothing
7) Work to improve yourself
8) Look at people like the Europeans do - a professional janitor and a professional CEO are equal in my book if they are
competent in their jobs
9) Take a discarded item, study it, and write down 10 things it can be re-purposed into so that it has another life - then
make one of those things.
10) Quit trying to make things perfect
11) Do not be afraid to fail - be afraid if you have never tried.
12) Be more tolerant of people who have opinions which differ from your own
13) Balance risk against safety (Note: Work-free safety zones are useless)
14) Ask yourself if "smokestack America" is better or worse than importing everything from China or another foreign
country.
15) Take a look at abandoned industrial plants on the internet - this is our future if nothing changes.
16) Learn to conserve resources - as the population increases, resources will gradually be exhausted (water, good farm
land, timber, natural gas, metals, etc.)
17) Learn to do what is right (this means educating yourself, working hard, making decisions which make sense over 30
years.

Issue 1 - Manufacture Products - Once people quit manufacturing things for themselves they become slaves to those who do the manufacture products - Read about the Eloy and the Moorlocks in Jules Verne the time machine. The Moorlocks live underground, run machinery, and feed the Eloy. The Moorlocks also eat the Eloy. Keep in mind that babies were sold for meat in England during the 1520's. Banks now generate 40% of the Federal income. If people quite borrowing money, we are in big trouble. I have spent 30 years transitioning from consumer to recycler / repairer to manufacturer / inventor.

Issue 2 - Re-institute shop class and Junior Achievement in schools (wood shop, metal shop, etc.) - We chose some years ago to eliminate shop class in favor of computer class. Now most people (consumers) cannot repair or build anything.

Issue 3: Limit the time spent on I-phones / cell phones - The last time I checked, my cell phone did not create, build, or repair anything.

Issue 4: Learn how to do something constructive while watching television - I no longer watch television. I do watch old videos. I rebuild airtools while I watch the videos. If there is a good scene on the video, I will watch in for a few minutes. Mostly, the videos are background noise and serve a similar function to a radio.

Issue 5: Throw away the lottery tickets - You will accomplish much more by fixing things yourself around the house.

Issue 6: Give up on getting something for nothing and make something out of nothing - I have been straightening out bent and rusty nails since I was 6 years old. I have built a world with those nails. Need I say more? My Public Library has a used bookstore. It saddens me that everyone appears to be getting rid of their do-it-yourself books and their quilting books.

Issue 7: Work to improve yourself - It might help if you quit purchasing Toyotas and read the book about the Toyota Way instead. Don't be afraid to wade into a difficult problem and get your hands dirty.

Issue 8: Look at people like the Europeans do - a professional janitor and a professional CEO are equal in my book if they
are competent in their jobs. It might help if you read Studs Terkel's book "Working". I make it a point to thank workers for the work which they perform. They have my respect. Peter the Great learned form the craftsmen.

Issue 9: Take a discarded item, study it, and write down 10 things it can be re-purposed into so that it has another life -
then make one of those things. I just found out this weekend how to take a can opener, hold it at a 45 degree angle and cut the top out of a soda pop can, 24 of the cans can be placed in a cardboard beer flat or soda pop flat to make a nice parts (re-purpose item) bin.

Issue 10: Quit trying to make things perfect - Many inventions which are extremely useful are not perfect. I am amused that when someone bakes a cake and it comes out perfect. I would be more impressed if someone got an engineering degree while maintaining a B+ grade average.

Issue 11: Do not be afraid to fail - be afraid if you have never tried - I have been successful because I have been willing to fail and have kept trying. I fought with a worthless little machine some time ago. I was determined not to give up until it was repaired. When you go to a surgeon to have your body repaired, should you expect less?

Issue 12: Be more tolerant of people who have opinions which differ from your own - I read biographies. I learn from other people's experiences and mistakes.

Issue 13: Balance risk against safety (Note: Work-free safety zones are useless) - I think about hazard analysis as a check of a design effort. It helps to ask "what if something goes wrong" and put corrective measures in place before something goes wrong.

Issue 14: Ask yourself if "smokestack America" is better or worse than importing everything from China or another foreign
country? Personally, I like industrial plants. They provide jobs, self-respect / individual capability, a sense of community, products, and an industrial backbone in the event of war. I like to compete with the Chinese in the airtool market.

Issue 15: Take a look at abandoned industrial plants on the internet - this is our future if nothing changes. I do not like our throw-away society (industrial plants, consumer goods, workers, etc.). It may be better to throw way the society instead. We are back to the discussion about the Eloy and the Moorlocks again.

Issue 16: Learn to conserve resources - as the population increases, resources will gradually be exhausted (water, good
farm land, timber, natural gas, metals, etc.). Always save something for tomorrow, you never know what could go wrong. We are back to the discussion on hazard analysis and what if questions. What if I run out of money?

Issue 17: Learn to do what is right (this means educating yourself, working hard, making decisions which make sense over 30 years. The Swiss decided to built a railroad tunnel underneath a mountain. It was going to take 30 years. After 30 years, there was a railroad tunnel underneath the mountain. Think about what it took to build the Panama Canal.

Regards,

Moderatevoter451
Mr. Moderatevoter,

I would add:

18) start taking golf seriously, get a new set of fitted clubs, practice your putting and work to get consistently below 90 (still a hacker, but baby steps).

19) clean out your old fishing gear, get new line, start working on your fly fishing techniques.

20) get a new pair of rocker skis, work at skiing more than 10 times a year, replace the lose in physical strength with technical skills.

21) finally get around to cleaning out and updating the inventory of that wine cellar

more when I have more time.
 
May 2019
18
10
Los Alamos
#18
Its only going to get worse from here. Now throw automation into the mix taking away unskilled labor completely. What then? Few have answers or want to talk about it. I keep hearing some say "we need them to all get to college" but thats not reality. All I see in another 20 years or so, is an even more angry populace angered they were automated out of work because they asked for a $15 min wage and nobody prepared them for the future. We could see some interesting elections then.
Tues 6-11-19 9:32 a.m.

I am a hands-on type of engineer. I think better when I have something in my hands. For example, I tore apart a 9 volt direct current battery recently. Inside of the outer metal wrapper, I found 6 each 1.5 volt direct current batteries. The 9 volt batteries have very interesting terminals which might be used again as a snap-type terminal or as a metal bushing. The 1.5 volt direct current batteries could be disassembled for cylindrical tubing stock. I will probably take both the outer metal wrapper and some of the tubing and measure their thickness to see what I can make them into using simple tools. The fiber stock used to hold the terminals has a potential use as fiber (insulated) washers.

Pardon me for saying this, but I see world of opportunity out there.

A can of tuna costs 89 cents at the grocery store. For years, I have been cutting out 3 or 4 shim washers from the tuna can lids. There are a variety of items which I no longer purchase at the hardware store because I can make them myself.

I have also been taking discarded pieces of 7/16-inch thick waferboard (plywood) scrap and building them up into 4 ft x 4 ft sheets. I make 2-inch wide joining strips, drill 1/16-inch diameter holes through the scrap pieces and plywood strips. Then I use discarded packing crate staples and wire to sew the pieces of wood together. I curl up the ends of the staples using a pair of needle nose pliers and pull the pieces of wood together. (Note: Why not use glue? Glue is not waterproof and costs money.) I have made some very nice packing crates. One proposed crate will become a home for the $80 Sears Craftsman snow blower I purchased at a garage sale recently. I have to straighten out the bent scroll and install a new shear pin, but that should be pretty simple. If it is not simple, I will use my noggin to develop a repair.

How do you think we got Apollo 13 back safely?

QED / End of Proof

Regards,

Moderatevoter451
 
Apr 2012
60,360
45,527
Englewood,Ohio
#19
Heard a great quote recently that said "America went from being a country of labor to a country of capital." I think that describes us perfectly. We used to rely on the backs of labor and rewarded that, but over the last 30 years we sent those jobs overseas to cheap labor and prefer the urban sophisticate worker. Which is great but we cant have just that. Europe still rewards labor but we dont. We love our corporations.
During Reagan.
 
Apr 2012
60,360
45,527
Englewood,Ohio
#20
The problem with the guaranteed basic income is that it does enable people to just refuse to work. They then find other things to do, things like tagging buildings and doing drugs.

No one wants a career in cleaning toilet and mowing grass either, but that's still preferable to doing nothing.

So, there are two separate but related problems: Providing higher level, challenging careers, and preparing people to fill those careers. I'm just not certain that anyone is up to that challenge.
I do not buy Guaranteed Income. That would destroy the incentive to work.

I visited 3 stores this morning. Clerks in 2 were friendly, smiling or laughing. The third clerk was rude, made it clear she did not want to be there. The stores were Aldi’s, Walmart and Dollar Tree.

Yesterday I was in another. One Clerk was so friendly and helpful. The other was supposed to be at the register.i waited for her. Actually was hiding. I saw her. In the Garden Center so went in the store to check out. I wondered if maybe she had trouble running the register. I see that quite often.:) i am never rude because I see it from the other side.

People need the ethics of work.
 

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