Minimum Wage, Nick Hanauer

Babylon

Former Staff
Apr 2007
11,780
5,915
Jersey
#51
As I said, except for Britain, and we were rapidly catching up with Britain, and had surpassed them by the end of the century.

This is all, by the way, THOROUGHLY documented in The Rise and Fall of American Growth, by Professor Robert Gordon (of Northwestern University), widely considered the world's leading expert on the measurement of productivity. I devour books on economics by the dozens, and in my opinion, this is THE most important work in economics of the last 20 years.
Are the wages adjusted for the Workers who received $0/HR?
 
Jan 2016
50,266
46,274
Colorado
#52
Are the wages adjusted for the Workers who received $0/HR?
I am not surprised you would bring this up. As I'm SURE you know, the slave-based plantation economy of the American South was NOT ancestral to the American economy of today. It was utterly destroyed by the Civil War and its aftermath. We are talking about the economy of the American NORTH, where labor was SCARCE and highly paid. Factory owners in the East HAD to pay their workers more (than employers in Europe), or the workers would simply follow the advice of journalist Horace Greeley, who said "Go west, young man, and seek out your fortune on the frontier". And this created an ENORMOUS incentive to develop labor-saving machinery in America, an incentive which simply did NOT exist in the Europe of the time, with all of its surplus labor.

Are you disputing that labor tends to earn a higher real wage when it is a scarce factor of production?

Because we saw the same thing after the Black Death of medieval Europe: Labor became VERY scarce, and the wages being earned by the peasants who managed to survive the pandemic SOARED in the aftermath.........
 
Likes: NightSwimmer
Jul 2015
2,691
1,606
Maryland USA
#53
There has been quite a bit of a discussion regarding Australia and the minimum wage. Frankly, I am not in a position to comment because I am not familiar with its population demographics. What is the size of the workforce requiring employment, what is its educational level (skilled versus unskilled labor availability), what is its immigration policy (domestic versus foreign labor) and what is the general income level and the consumers willingness to pay.

I am sometimes amused when discussing this topic with some of my rather liberal golf buds. They support a rather massive increase to the minimum wage, yet at the same time they support the decision not to enforce our immigration laws. They don't seem to be able to grasp the concept that illegal immigration is keeping wages low by not allowing the labor market to function properly.

Any minimum wage will only have a short term impact, the need to increase will be cyclical until certain underlying concerns are addressed. This topic will be discussed again and again over time. Corporations and businesses are not social service organizations, they are created for one purpose and one purpose only, to yield a profit for working capital and a return on the investment of its owners and investors. The increase in labor costs will be reflected in prices.

I admit that I am only repeating what I have heard, but it does make some sense. Given a $15 hourly rate, the annual income would be about $30,000. I have been told that with the various social programs it would equate to about a $40,000 household income. So why work?

A concentrated effort must be made to create a skilled workforce. Even if through some means, employment opportunities are created, do we have the required skilled workforce to fill those jobs. If not, I fear we will need to continue the subsidization of the unskilled.
 
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Jan 2016
50,266
46,274
Colorado
#54
There has been quite a bit of a discussion regarding Australia and the minimum wage. Frankly, I am not in a position to comment because I am not familiar with its population demographics. What is the size of the workforce requiring employment, what is its educational level (skilled versus unskilled labor availability), what is its immigration policy (domestic versus foreign labor) and what is the general income level and the consumers willingness to pay.

I am sometimes amused when discussing this topic with some of my rather liberal golf buds. They support a rather massive increase to the minimum wage, yet at the same time they support the decision not to enforce our immigration laws. They don't seem to be able to grasp the concept that illegal immigration is keeping wages low by not allowing the labor market to function properly.

Any minimum wage will only have a short term impact, the need to increase will be cyclical until certain underlying concerns are addressed. This topic will be discussed again and again over time. Corporations and businesses are not social service organizations, they are created for one purpose and one purpose only, to yield a profit for working capital and a return on the investment of its owners and investors. The increase in labor costs will be reflected in prices.

I admit that I am only repeating what I have heard, but it does make some sense. Given a $15 hourly rate, the annual income would be about $30,000. I have been told that with the various social programs it would equate to about a $40,000 household income. So why work?

A concentrated effort must be made to create a skilled workforce. Even if through some means, employment opportunities are created, do we have the required skilled workforce to fill those jobs. If not, I fear we will need to continue the subsidization of the unskilled.
From the current issue of The Atlantic: Since 2009, more Mexicans have LEFT the United States than have entered it.

And there are numerous other highly credible sources that report the same thing: that the flow of immigration from Mexico has REVERSED in the past seven years. Mexicans have been 'self-deporting' in LARGE numbers since 2009. Many Mexicans worked in the construction industry. The construction industry collapsed in 2007-2009. Many of those workers went home, finding better job opportunities in Mexico during the Great Recession in America.

Hence I do not think it can be accurately claimed any more that "illegal immigration is keeping wages low by not allowing the labor market to function properly". Ten years ago, I think that would have been true. I no longer think it is.
 
Likes: NightSwimmer
Feb 2011
16,523
5,779
Boise, ID
#57
Republicans seem to find feudalism a VERY attractive economic model.

That's because they're all so blisteringly stupid that they think that THEY would be the ones ending up as the aristocrats, and able to 'lord it over' the peasants.
Infantile partisan prattle, as usual.

I hope he gets heard.

Why? He feeds you the shit you already thought, and want to hear, which is all off-the-cuff rhetoric, and you think he's a genius or visionary just because he has money? Most liberals around here can articulate themselves better than that little meme. He's been known to toss around arguments he himself has to know are patently idiotic (like "Henry Ford succeeded because he paid his workers enough to buy the cars they made"). He of all people has to recognize how blatantly retarded that is. So whatever his personal agenda really is, it's clear that a central part of his strategy is to start by feeding people stupid soundbites they already have rolling around in their little partisan heads.
 
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Jan 2016
50,266
46,274
Colorado
#58
Infantile partisan prattle, as usual.
I imagine you think that YOU are a natural-born aristocrat, too. You do seem to be of that type. And you STILL haven't explained why virtually EVERY Republican tax proposal has the effect of widening the income and wealth gaps in this country.

Oh, and Henry Ford DID pay his workers MORE THAN HE NEEDED TO. If you're disputing THAT, let me know.
 

BDBoop

Former Staff
Dec 2010
46,541
43,209
Twitter
#59
Infantile partisan prattle, as usual.



Why? He feeds you the shit you already thought, and want to hear, which is all off-the-cuff rhetoric, and you think he's a genius or visionary just because he has money? Most liberals around here can articulate themselves better than that little meme. He's been known to toss around arguments he himself has to know are patently idiotic (like "Henry Ford succeeded because he paid his workers enough to buy the cars they made"). He of all people has to recognize how blatantly retarded that is. So whatever his personal agenda really is, it's clear that a central part of his strategy is to start by feeding people stupid soundbites they already have rolling around in their little partisan heads.
You are so angry, and I can't begin to fathom why.
 
Dec 2015
15,590
11,131
SoCal
#60
CBO said even $10.10 would eliminate an estimated half-million low-skill jobs. Sucks to be them, right?!
Well, yes, it does suck to be a low-skill worker being paid minimum wage, but I figure those jobs are more threatened by mechanization than anything else.

Can you please provide some text from a CBO link that makes your case?

If not, I'll understand.