Navy seeks to strip Gallagher's SEAL status

Davocrat

Former Staff
Apr 2007
54,421
44,215
Deep State
There's some reassurance that American institutions are still functioning despite Trump dismantling things for his own selfish needs and desires.


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A military jury acquitted Chief Petty Officer Edward Gallagher of murder and war crimes charges in July but convicted him of having posed with the teenage ISIS fighter's corpse. He was ordered dropped in rank from chief to petty officer first class...

...Trump's order was widely reported to have created a rift with the Navy, and on Tuesday night, the defense official said the service would seek to strip Gallagher and three of his supervising officers of the gold eagle Trident emblem signifying that they are members of one of the Navy's elite Special Warfare Navy Sea, Air and Land units, better known as SEALs.

 

Babba

Former Staff
Jul 2007
78,373
70,474
So. Md.
This is an interesting point about why Trump would do something like this. (Had to link to this blog because I've read my quota of WaPo articles for the month. But the piece is from the Post.)

The pardons, made over the objections of the Pentagon, suggest that Trump holds a dangerous, obsolete view of warfare — one that had fallen into disrepute after the horrors of World War II. His actions suggest that he believes in “total war,” in which warfare is conducted not only by professional soldiers but also by entire societies, including their civilians.

The slaughter of the 1940s, in which civilians bore the brunt of much military force, notably through aerial bombings, led nations to recommit themselves to vigorous enforcement of rules on the conduct of war — rules that drew sharp distinctions between combatants and noncombatants, protecting the latter. The goal was to avoid total war at all costs and to ensure that professional soldiers bore the brunt of war’s horror. Trump apparently rejects the combatant-noncombatant distinction as a pointless quibble. Yet such a stance could have dangerous implications, including for both U.S. soldiers and American civilians.

Societies try to progress and become more civilized, although it can be argued that we're still barbarians but at least we recognize that such a goal is noble, and Trump does the opposite. He truly is a barbarian who is intent on undoing social progress.

I will be interested to see how Trump reacts to the Navy's actions.
 
Jul 2014
40,341
10,971
midwest
Will he still get his full retirement pay?

From our tax dollars?

Your tax dollars and mine?

If so, that would take some of the sting out of losing his Trident badge, huh?

Then if the admiral who is trying to take his badge away gets court marshalled himself, Mr Gallagher would get the last laugh...
 
Last edited:
Dec 2018
5,955
2,444
Florida
This is an interesting point about why Trump would do something like this. (Had to link to this blog because I've read my quota of WaPo articles for the month. But the piece is from the Post.)




Societies try to progress and become more civilized, although it can be argued that we're still barbarians but at least we recognize that such a goal is noble, and Trump does the opposite. He truly is a barbarian who is intent on undoing social progress.

I will be interested to see how Trump reacts to the Navy's actions.
Civilized warfare. I think that is what they considered it back in the 1700s too.

There is nothing civilized about war. Sigh.
 
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Babba

Former Staff
Jul 2007
78,373
70,474
So. Md.
Civilized warfare. I think that is what they considered it back in the 1700s too.

There is nothing civilized about war. Sigh.
I said as much. But international laws were enacted to try to ensure that only military members experience the worst of war. War still sucks.

You're as bad as Trump if you condone what Gallagher did.
 
Nov 2010
3,252
3,695
Massachusetts
Will he still get his full retirement pay?

From our tax dollars?

Your tax dollars and mine?

If so, that would take some of the sting out of losing his Trident badge, huh?

Then if the admiral who is trying to take his badge away gets court marshalled himself, Mr Gallagher would get the last laugh...
It’s always about sticking it to the libs, or Trump getting one over, with you guys. This is no joking matter. The fucking POTUS once again showed his disdain for military brass. He always knows better, right? It’ll be a cold day in hell when this admiral gets court marshalled.
 
Jun 2014
51,547
53,363
United States
Will he still get his full retirement pay?

From our tax dollars?

Your tax dollars and mine?

If so, that would take some of the sting out of losing his Trident badge, huh?

Then if the admiral who is trying to take his badge away gets court marshalled himself, Mr Gallagher would get the last laugh...

What the hell is wrong with you?
 
Dec 2018
5,955
2,444
Florida
I said as much. But international laws were enacted to try to ensure that only military members experience the worst of war. War still sucks.

You're as bad as Trump if you condone what Gallagher did.
Well the type of warfare being conducted at present does not limit itself to military only. Mostly because it isn’t military people taking up arms. It is counter insurgency. And that is very different. It is very similar to total war. Sadly.

As for what the seal did? Don’t get me wrong. I’m not condoning it at all. The guy was unhinged from what I’ve read (including drug use from what I have heard). My statement was really just highlighting the notion of “civilized war.” It doesn’t exist. And civilians will always be in the way. Especially when the bad guys hide with them. :(
 
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Singularity

Moderator
Oct 2009
34,258
29,356
Kansas
It’s always about sticking it to the libs, or Trump getting one over, with you guys. This is no joking matter. The fucking POTUS once again showed his disdain for military brass. He always knows better, right? It’ll be a cold day in hell when this admiral gets court marshalled.
At this point, it’s about sticking it to everybody, right? He might have been able to get away with letting Gallagher go. There’s just enough ambiguity there to give his defenders cause to say he showed appropriate mercy — although completely clearing him of all offenses and reversing the single reduction in rank is hard to justify.

But Clint Lorance too? The man who has been in Leavenworth not only for his own crimes, but for ordering troops under his command to murder defenseless villagers? Who had only been in Afghanistan a matter of weeks at the time? Who had absolutely no one in his unit testify on his behalf?

And now Republicans are targeting Alexander Vindman, who has an Iraq War Purple Heart and other valor awards, for supposed dual loyalties.

It would seem the GOP is not terribly interested in retaining its edge among military and veteran voters. Or perhaps they just take that support for granted to such an extent that they believe nothing matters.

I guess only time will tell if they are right.
 

Singularity

Moderator
Oct 2009
34,258
29,356
Kansas
Well the type of warfare being conducted at present does not limit itself to military only. Mostly because it isn’t military people taking up arms. It is counter insurgency. And that is very different. It is very similar to total war. Sadly.

As for what the seal did? Don’t get me wrong. I’m not condoning it at all. The guy was unhinged from what I’ve read (including drug use from what I have heard). My statement was really just highlighting the notion of “civilized war.” It doesn’t exist. And civilians will always be in the way. Especially when the bad guys hide with them. :(
Gallagher had enough defenders among the SEALs where it could never be said that he had definitively behaved in a manner not consistent with what the situation on the ground required to defend himself and his peers. Some of the evidence was flawed as well.

Not the case with Lorance. The lone common denominator between these two is Fox News aired spinmeisters on behalf of both men in recent days. Lorance is a war criminal, plain and simple, and the whole Army knows it. He sought to kill innocent people and to use his local authority as a junior officer to do so over the objections of his troops and without their support at trial.

Trump just believes whatever he is told on TV, if it is put in the right characterization. He is dangerously suggestible. I rather think he is mentally compromised. His decisions here otherwise make no sense.