New Illinois law will ensure contributions of gay people are taught in public schools

Dec 2018
4,315
1,616
Florida
#61
Except this was a US ally that carried it out, and the US never pressured them about their policy of chemical castration for homosexuals. There was no war “to stop that kind of thing”.

Meanwhile, back in the USofA:

Tuskegee syphilis experiment - Wikipedia

Just more history that will make kids hate America, so probably shouldn’t teach it, even though it happened.
I was referring to a war to stop Nazis. It ultimately was a war that was fought to oppose their militarism, but also it was something that we as Americans believed in: a war to protect individual rights.

You are right we didn’t fight a war because of gays or Jews. But we did look to preserve individual rights. Alan Turing? He could be taught in context. But I have a feeling that this legislation has no desire to do that.
 
Dec 2018
4,315
1,616
Florida
#62
The right only wants sanitized, fairy tale history, to be taught, none of this real life stuff. They want all the nasty stuff kept in the closet, like they keep themselves.
The same could be said about democrats. Heaven forbid we teach personal responsibility or discuss difficult topics. We need to make sure the union controls what is (isn’t) taught. And make sure teachers get a pay check for not teaching. And fuck administrations! Oh. And trump bad!
 
Jul 2013
56,327
61,484
Nashville, TN
#63
The same could be said about democrats. Heaven forbid we teach personal responsibility or discuss difficult topics. We need to make sure the union controls what is (isn’t) taught. And make sure teachers get a pay check for not teaching. And fuck administrations! Oh. And trump bad!
Bullshit. Other than Trump being bad, that is absolutely true.
 
Nov 2018
6,838
2,178
Maryland
#64
No. The point is that gay people have and continue to make positive contributions to society and we need to recognize that fact.
You can find that out in libraries and online.

No need for indoctrinating kids in school. Get back to the fundamentals of reading, writing, and math. Our kids are falling behind and "feel good" topics should not be put front and center.
 
Jul 2013
56,327
61,484
Nashville, TN
#65
You can find that out in libraries and online.

No need for indoctrinating kids in school. Get back to the fundamentals of reading, writing, and math. Our kids are falling behind and "feel good" topics should not be put front and center.
Since when is history a "feel good" topic?
 
Likes: HayJenn

StanStill

Former Staff
Dec 2013
13,081
14,727
Work
#66
I was referring to a war to stop Nazis. It ultimately was a war that was fought to oppose their militarism, but also it was something that we as Americans believed in: a war to protect individual rights.

You are right we didn’t fight a war because of gays or Jews. But we did look to preserve individual rights. Alan Turing? He could be taught in context. But I have a feeling that this legislation has no desire to do that.
I assume you mean the authors of the bill have no desire to do that. So you think that they don't want kids to be taught about things in context? Based on what? The whole study of history is the study of the things that happened and the context in which they happened. In the case of Turing, I think it's certainly relevant that he was living a life considered so illegal, and yet was still able to make meaningful contributions to mathematics and the war effort in spite of that cruelty.

The OP makes the glib comment that "I didn't realize they had different History." and then mocks by asking if they have different math or geography. The fact is OF COURSE they have a different history. The history of Africans in the Caribbean is different from the history of indigenous people in the Caribbean, which is different from the history of Europeans in the Caribbean. The history of homosexuality in society is far different than the history of heterosexuality.

There is no "one true history". History isn't a list of facts or dates. It's the story of things we now find important and how they existed in the past. If we value democracy, then we should study it's existence in the past, but also study the existence of dictatorship and how one can become the other. If we value human rights, then we should study struggles by people to win rights, as well as the history of people trying to deny them rights. Every historian makes the decision of what isn't important and what is. Either we simply stay stuck in the decisions of people in the past on what is and isn't important, and get on with memorizing ossified facts and dates, or we keep the study of history alive and study the things we now want to know about.
 
Likes: OldGaffer

Ian Jeffrey

Council Hall
Mar 2013
75,992
45,001
Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
#67
Imagine if Americans actually had to pass a civics test to vote.
Lol ... not the worst idea in the world (aside from being unconstitutional). I once put together a quiz made up of weird scenarios and entirely trick questions, just for kicks, with that in mind.
 
Likes: remington50
Dec 2018
4,315
1,616
Florida
#69
Lol ... not the worst idea in the world (aside from being unconstitutional). I once put together a quiz made up of weird scenarios and entirely trick questions, just for kicks, with that in mind.
I know. Sad thing is? I’m sure many wouldn’t pass. I had this discussion with a friend after some incident involving police and some local schmuck who didn’t understand his right to an attorney. Sad part? He wasn’t even guilty of anything till he got violent with the cops who had enough probable cause to make the arrest.
 
Dec 2018
4,315
1,616
Florida
#70
Bullshit. Other than Trump being bad, that is absolutely true.
Nah. I’ve heard plenty of feel good bullshit and lovely bureaucratic stupidity to burden teachers from the left. Democrats loves them some bureaucracy. And you know it. But hey...republicans are 100% of the problem every time! You just stick with that. ;)