Reading the Mueller Report

Mar 2007
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I'll just refer you to post #626, although I doubt it will have any effect.
It's totally unclear what your point is. You mock me for not understanding the special counsel role, then when I provide a fully documented history, you divert and step away from whatever your mocking was about.

Let me be clear. Mueller's job was to indict people which he did quite well. I have never objected to Mueller, but his authorization and the scope of his mission which allowed him to go anywhere and any time to find crimes. Then he writes a book of commentary that you folks are treating as holy writ. Again, he's not a judge or a professor of the law. His indictments are the substance of his job, not his commentary. At some point, the President deserves the rest of the story, which I predict will be about bias and entrapment .

If you want to show me a special counsel who is noted for his reports, please do. I don't see it. There is no more weight in his opinions than Barr or Horowitz. So let's wait for their reports and look at all of them together.
 
Oct 2018
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Somewhere they can't find me.
It's totally unclear what your point is. You mock me for not understanding the special counsel role, then when I provide a fully documented history, you divert and step away from whatever your mocking was about.

Let me be clear. Mueller's job was to indict people which he did quite well. I have never objected to Mueller, but his authorization and the scope of his mission which allowed him to go anywhere and any time to find crimes. Then he writes a book of commentary that you folks are treating as holy writ. Again, he's not a judge or a professor of the law. His indictments are the substance of his job, not his commentary. At some point, the President deserves the rest of the story, which I predict will be about bias and entrapment .

If you want to show me a special counsel who is noted for his reports, please do. I don't see it. There is no more weight in his opinions than Barr or Horowitz. So let's wait for their reports and look at all of them together.

Yeah, this is going pretty much the way I thought it would.

Let's be clear: He was not empowered to indict a sitting president.

You're wrong. Get over it.
 
Likes: the bull59
Mar 2007
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Yeah, this is going pretty much the way I thought it would.

Let's be clear: He was not empowered to indict a sitting president.

You're wrong. Get over it.
I never said he was. But politically, it's the death of a thousand cuts as associates and campaign workers are indicted.

The problem you have is that no american was indicted for conspiring with the Russians and that's what was presumed when Mueller was appointed.

So Mueller trolled for crimes for two years and found a bunch unrelated to his central mission.

I'm not wrong about anything.
 

Babba

Former Staff
Jul 2007
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I never said he was. But politically, it's the death of a thousand cuts as associates and campaign workers are indicted.

The problem you have is that no american was indicted for conspiring with the Russians and that's what was presumed when Mueller was appointed.

So Mueller trolled for crimes for two years and found a bunch unrelated to his central mission.

I'm not wrong about anything.
Here we go again. It's not Trump's fault he has surrounded himself with a bunch of crooks.
 
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Here we go again. It's not Trump's fault he has surrounded himself with a bunch of crooks.
And those crooks destroyed evidence of their crimes. That would be hard for Mueller to bring charges w/o that evidence.
:cool:


The special counsel’s office “learned that some of the individuals we interviewed or whose conduct we investigated — including some associated with the Trump Campaign deleted relevant communications or communicated during the relevant period using applications that feature encryption or that do not provide for long term retention of data or communication records,” the report said. “In such cases the Office was not able to corroborate witness statements through comparison to contemporaneous communications or fully question witnesses about statements that appeared inconsistent with the other known facts.”

Apps such as Snapchat, for example, delete messages once they have been viewed, and the company says it deletes all messages from its servers after 30 days. ....

Mueller says messaging apps likely destroyed Trump-Russia evidence
 
Mar 2007
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Here we go again. It's not Trump's fault he has surrounded himself with a bunch of crooks.
As a manager, he's responsible for every person he hires. And as you keep pointing out, Mueller could not indict him, so he indicted his people.

But he didn't indict a single American for conspiring with the Russians, which was the reason for the investigation.

Now if you think it's just a great idea to give every new President a special prosecutor anal exam that applies to all his associates and goes back to the histories of those associates to times before they even worked for him, do you think that is a good idea?

I don't.
 

Babba

Former Staff
Jul 2007
74,827
64,906
So. Md.
As a manager, he's responsible for every person he hires. And as you keep pointing out, Mueller could not indict him, so he indicted his people.

But he didn't indict a single American for conspiring with the Russians, which was the reason for the investigation.

Now if you think it's just a great idea to give every new President a special prosecutor anal exam that applies to all his associates and goes back to the histories of those associates to times before they even worked for him, do you think that is a good idea?

I don't.
When any candidate for office and his/her campaign behaves as they did, they should be investigated.
 
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When any candidate for office and his/her campaign behaves as they did, they should be investigated.
Regarding the raison d'etre for Mueller, not one member of the Trump campaign was indicted for conspiring with the Russians.

What occurred was that the dragnet Mueller imposed on Trump associates found crimes, but no behaviors of Trump associates generated the Mueller authorization.

Those who pursued the Trump contacts with Russians came up empty handed.

Please try to see the problem here. Any entrenched bureaucracy fearing that their legacy accomplishments will be reversed can impose such a dragnet if they can come up with what they think is a plausible reason and get a few judges to agree with them.

But the plausible reason turned out to be empty and in the meantime, the OVERWHELMING press drumbeat scared enough people for them to start lying and hiding and feeling threatened.

This is no way to handle a transition of power.

The press was wrong and the authorization basically said that even if there is no conspiracy with Russians, we can get you on SOMETHING, which they did.

The right did this to the Clintons. Did you think that persecution was justified?
 
Jul 2007
74,827
64,906
So. Md.
Regarding the raison d'etre for Mueller, not one member of the Trump campaign was indicted for conspiring with the Russians.

What occurred was that the dragnet Mueller imposed on Trump associates found crimes, but no behaviors of Trump associates generated the Mueller authorization.

Those who pursued the Trump contacts with Russians came up empty handed.

Please try to see the problem here. Any entrenched bureaucracy fearing that their legacy accomplishments will be reversed can impose such a dragnet if they can come up with what they think is a plausible reason and get a few judges to agree with them.

But the plausible reason turned out to be empty and in the meantime, the OVERWHELMING press drumbeat scared enough people for them to start lying and hiding and feeling threatened.

This is no way to handle a transition of power.

The press was wrong and the authorization basically said that even if there is no conspiracy with Russians, we can get you on SOMETHING, which they did.

The right did this to the Clintons. Did you think that persecution was justified?
The investigations began during the campaign. The behavior of members of Trump's campaign justified any and all investigations. In the course of Mueller's investigation other crimes were found and in some cases the knowledge of those crimes was used to get witnesses to talk. That is not at all unusual and you're well aware of that. Once these crimes were found should they just have been ignored?

The other thing you're mistaken about is that while Mueller and his people didn't feel they could point to a specific moment when the Trump campaign explicitly agreed to work with the Russians, there were many instances where the Trump people considered it. These people aren't perfectly innocent little angels who have been picked on. This is from the Mueller report, which you should read, btw.

The Office determined that certain individuals associated with the Campaign lied to investigators about Campaign contacts with Russia and have taken other actions to interfere with the investigation. As explained below, the Office therefore charged some U.S. persons connected to the Campaign with false statements and obstruction offenses.
Now why would they lie and try to obstruct investigations?
 
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The investigations began during the campaign. The behavior of members of Trump's campaign justified any and all investigations. In the course of Mueller's investigation other crimes were found and in some cases the knowledge of those crimes was used to get witnesses to talk. That is not at all unusual and you're well aware of that. Once these crimes were found should they just have been ignored?

The other thing you're mistaken about is that while Mueller and his people didn't feel they could point to a specific moment when the Trump campaign explicitly agreed to work with the Russians, there were many instances where the Trump people considered it. These people aren't perfectly innocent little angels who have been picked on. This is from the Mueller report, which you should read, btw.



Now why would they lie and try to obstruct investigations?
Because they were ordered to lie. Of course, that can't be proved, according to the Mueller report, since they destroyed evidence.
:cool:
 

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